Why Babylon 5 is awesome

That reminds me of something...the details are a little hazy but it way back when this was showing on C4(?) and I think it was the end of the fourth season. There was a delay to when the UK would be getting the final few episodes (I think). Anyway, I posted on a SF tv site that a friend in the US had managed to get hold of them on videotape and sent to me. I said the episodes were fantastic and particularly the bit where Sheridan got sent back in time to the beginning of the universe and accidently caused an explosion which triggered the Big Bang thereby ultimately creating the situation everyone was in . Kosh knew this had to happen which was why he was so interested in him.

Complete and utter nonsense of course, and I assumed everyone would see the joke. Unfortunately, several people fell for it...

And I agree; it is one of the finest SF series ever. Largely because JMS sat down and had the audacity to write a story that would require 100+ episodes to tell. The scope of the thing is amazing - true "big picture". There's some fine acting throughout and, full disclosure, I thought Mira Furlan was gorgeous.
 
That reminds me of something...the details are a little hazy but it way back when this was showing on C4(?) and I think it was the end of the fourth season. There was a delay to when the UK would be getting the final few episodes (I think). Anyway, I posted on a SF tv site that a friend in the US had managed to get hold of them on videotape and sent to me. I said the episodes were fantastic and particularly the bit where Sheridan got sent back in time to the beginning of the universe and accidently caused an explosion which triggered the Big Bang thereby ultimately creating the situation everyone was in . Kosh knew this had to happen which was why he was so interested in him.

Complete and utter nonsense of course, and I assumed everyone would see the joke. Unfortunately, several people fell for it...

And I agree; it is one of the finest SF series ever. Largely because JMS sat down and had the audacity to write a story that would require 100+ episodes to tell. The scope of the thing is amazing - true "big picture". There's some fine acting throughout and, full disclosure, I thought Mira Furlan was gorgeous.


What be helpful to this series id if were back on the air in syndication somewhere . Perhaps on the Syfy Channel even Tv Land. Its an important tv series .:unsure:
 
What be helpful to this series id if were back on the air in syndication somewhere . Perhaps on the Syfy Channel even Tv Land. Its an important tv series .:unsure:

I totally agree, but JMS complains that Warner seems to want to pretend B5 doesn't exist.
 
A few weeks ago I was talking to another huge fan of Babylon 5 that also happens to be my aunt and we both agreed that we would stop seeing any series on netflix should they have B5 in the catalog. In my rank it is placed 3rd after Fringe and Farscape ( X-files is for me what we call "hors concours " here in Brazil ;-) ) I still consider Andreas Katsulas the greatest actor of our time (RIP).
 
That is beyond foolish. :mad:
Or good business. Is anyone thinking that Warner is uninterested in making money and is keeping a finished series with a known fan base on ice out of spite?
 
I wondered if there was some legal/rights issue between Warner Bros and JMS (in fact there was faint bell ringing about this). But a quick search brought up an interview he did in 2014 where he says:

JMS: In reverse order: no, you hear wrong, there's no issue with rights on the show. It's owned by Warner Bros. Always has been, always will be.

Possibly the reason is in the second part of his answer (the question concerned making a HD video transfer available)?

The problem is that the show was shot 16-9 but the efx were rendered in regular aspect ratio due to an issue that I was unaware of at the time. I'd assumed all cgi and comp shots were being rendered at full size. So transferring isn't a solution as they would have to be cropped and re-sized and that simply doesn't work as we've seen. (As I understand it, the DVDs are actually copies from PAL/laserdisc transfers because WB didn't want to pay for another run.) The only way to get HD versions of the episodes would be to re-render every single CGI and comp shot, and Warners will never, ever pay to have that done.

But would it need to be transmitted (i.e. in syndication) in HD?
 
Or good business. Is anyone thinking that Warner is uninterested in making money and is keeping a finished series with a known fan base on ice out of spite?

I just cannot fathom Warner's thinking on this . They a have series which could potentially make them money and their ignoring it completely . Its crazy. :unsure:
 
I just cannot fathom Warner's thinking on this . They a have series which could potentially make them money and their ignoring it completely . Its crazy.

I found that it made more sense when I looked at the history of the channel that produced B5 and their relationship with Warner Brothers. So, the channel that actually made B5 was the Prime Time Entertainment Network (PTEN), which was a joint venture consortium between Warners Domestic TV Distribution Division and Chris-Craft Industries (CCI). It launched in January 1993, mainly as a syndication network but with some original programming, which included B5. (It also included Time Trax and Kung-Fu: The Legend Continues).

However, in a classic case of corporate screw-ups, by November 1993 Warners decided that it wanted to set up its own tv station: The WB, which started broadcasting in January 1995. This duly caused a political battle within Warners over what to do with PTEN. The execs running The WB wanted PTEN restricted to syndicated programming only, so as not to compete with their new channel. However, by this time B5 had a decent fanbase and so Distribution could point to the numbers as support for its argument for keeping B5 and PTEN. With the fans writing in and showing support, Distribution edged it in the internal political battle. However, CCI walked away from PTEN in 1995, leaving sole ownership with Warners, and by 1997 PTEN was on its knees. As such, the argument for keeping PTEN going fell apart, so Warners axed PTEN and B5. The WB wasn't interested in keeping B5 going. After all, they'd been trying to kill it for the past few years. They were rejoicing at their victory. Distribution finally managed to save the show by selling it to TNT.

However, the legacy of the internal political struggle at Warners lives on today. Although Warners own the copyright for B5, the TV execs look down their noses at the show because it is not "their" show. They didn't make it, PTEN did. As such, they don't acknowledge that B5 is a valid Warner Brothers show and, therefore, they don't re-run it. The fact that Warners Home Video Division took the show, put it on DVD and made an absolute mint out of it makes the situation worse rather than better. Their attitude is, in essence, a toxic mix of tribalism, resentment and petty jealousy on the part of the tv execs. Unless (or until) it wears off, the likelihood of getting a re-run of B5 in the US is doubtful.

Outside the US, it may be slightly different. Some time last year I came across B5 repeats running on a very obscure UK cable channel at something like 3am. To be honest, I can't remember which channel it was. They ran 1 show a night for about 6 months. Went through all 5 series using a 50-minute time slot with limited commercials.

Anyway, that's my understanding of why Warners won't do anything with B5.
 
Because of the great story, a very complex universe and thanks to the well written characters and the perfect actors.
 
I liked it when it was being aired haven't sen it much since one day ill rent advd of it.
 
Good time to plug my current Babylon 5 Rewatch, which is approaching the end of Season 4:)

What be helpful to this series id if were back on the air in syndication somewhere . Perhaps on the Syfy Channel even Tv Land. Its an important tv series .:unsure:

Babylon 5 has been airing on the US Go90 service for the last year or so, and has been airing on Pick TV in the UK for the last two months, so it's available. Not on anyone's platform of choice, true, but it's out there. It's also, er, freely available on a certain very popular video-sharing site and has been for years. WB seems content for it to be there, as they could have taken it down whenever.

JMS: In reverse order: no, you hear wrong, there's no issue with rights on the show. It's owned by Warner Bros. Always has been, always will be.

Possibly the reason is in the second part of his answer (the question concerned making a HD video transfer available)?

The problem is that the show was shot 16-9 but the efx were rendered in regular aspect ratio due to an issue that I was unaware of at the time. I'd assumed all cgi and comp shots were being rendered at full size. So transferring isn't a solution as they would have to be cropped and re-sized and that simply doesn't work as we've seen. (As I understand it, the DVDs are actually copies from PAL/laserdisc transfers because WB didn't want to pay for another run.) The only way to get HD versions of the episodes would be to re-render every single CGI and comp shot, and Warners will never, ever pay to have that done.

But would it need to be transmitted (i.e. in syndication) in HD?

Having consulted widely on the Babylon 5 issues on a continuation/reboot/remaster, here's where things lie:

A Remaster
This is almost certainly never going to happen. As mentioned previously, all of the CGI for the show was rendered in standard aspect ratio rather than widescreen, because WB refused to pay $5,000 for a widescreen reference monitor for Foundation Imaging. With the cost of rendering images in widescreen significantly higher than standard ratio, Foundation Imaging decided not to bother, a decision apparently signed off on by Doug Netter (who was handling business matters for the show, leaving JMS free to focus on the story). For the DVDs, every single CG and composite shot - every shot with the Garden in the background, a PPG being fired or even text going across it - is therefore cropped, so you lose information from the top and bottom of the screen (sometimes farcically so).

The cost of remastering Babylon 5 is insane. Babylon 5, at 5 seasons, 110 episodes and 4 TV movies has almost three times as many effects shots as Star Trek: The Next Generation (at 7 seasons and 178 episodes). The cost of remastering Star Trek: The Next Generation was just over $20 million. The project began in 2012, was completed in 2014 and apparently only just broken even through physical media sales and foreign sales of the reruns (apparently the massive international Netflix deal is what finally pushed the remaster into popularity). And that's for the single most successful and popular space opera TV show ever made.

According to the information I was able to gather, a conservative estimate for a remaster of Babylon 5 is $40 million, for a show that is considerably more obscure than ST:TNG. Personally that sounds a bit low to me, as the volume of CG in B5 is insane, especially given its low budget. Re-rendering it in 4K, or even just 1080p, is going to be a big job even before considering how many CG models have to be rebuilt in a higher level of detail and fidelity. The other problem is that blowing up the standard footage to 1080p will expose problems with sets, wardrobes etc, all of which on B5 was done at a fraction of the budget of ST:TNG. ST:TNG looks utterly amazing in HD because they put a huge amount of time, effort and money into it back in the 1980s and 1990s. B5, made on between half and a third of the budget, had to cut a lot of corners which will suddenly show up if you increase the fidelity.

A Continuation
This has been shot down by everyone: too many castmembers have passed away (most recently, Jerry Doyle and Stephen Furst) to make this really viable.

A Reboot
Warner Brothers have, astonishingly, been considering a full-fledged reboot of the show instead, possibly in partnership with a streaming service. However, they've run into a major problem: Straczynski is not interested. JMS has instead been developing a feature film reboot of the series, telling a much-truncated version of the same story through a series of films. Apparently there was even talk of him working on it with the Wachowskis after their collaboration on Sense8. JMS has the exclusive film rights to Babylon 5, so Warner Brothers can't do anything about it. WB don't want to cause confusion by having two different canon reboots going on at the same time, and they fear a degree of fan backlash if JMS isn't involved, so they've put their TV reboot idea on ice. Fortunately (as I don't think a cut-down B5 reboot on film is what anyone other than JMS's bank manager wants), the movie talk has dried up. JMS has been asked repeatedly about doing a TV reboot and he keeps rejecting the idea, but you have to wonder if he will be tempted back by the idea of doing B5 with far more resources and budget than what he had back in the day.

With everything else being continued or rebooted, my feeling is that B5 will return in some form, and probably not too many years down the line either.
 
According to the information I was able to gather, a conservative estimate for a remaster of Babylon 5 is $40 million, for a show that is considerably more obscure than ST:TNG. Personally that sounds a bit low to me, as the volume of CG in B5 is insane, especially given its low budget..

But Babylon 5 is better than Deep Space Nine which is the best Star Trek.

But that is not what most Trek fans think. Taste in SF is so peculiar.

psii
 
Episode 14 of season 3, "Ship of Tears", is on Pick at 20:00 tonight.

Pick have been running the show from the first episode of season 1.
 
But Babylon 5 is better than Deep Space Nine which is the best Star Trek.

But that is not what most Trek fans think. Taste in SF is so peculiar.

Highly debatable. B5 is far more ambitious, but the execution was frequently shambolic. Production values on DS9 were far superior to B5 and the quality of acting was far more consistent across the board. DS9 didn't quite have anyone in the Jurasik/Katsulas league (although Visitor, Shimmerman and Auberjonois frequently came close) but they also didn't have anyone in the regular cast as painfully wooden as O'Hare (although we know now there may have been medical reasons for that) or Scoggins. DS9 was also far more consistent in quality. With B5 you have to accept that most of Season 5 and half of Season 1 are awful, and the spin-off is borderline unwatchable. DS9 doesn't really have that. The worst you'd hear is that Season 1 is a little slow, but still produces several brilliant episodes (like Duet). It's best episodes are on a par with B5's best, but DS9's worst episodes are absolutely nowhere near as bad as B5's worst episodes. DS9 is also far funnier (Straczynski had many strengths but humour was not one of them).

B5 was a more ambitious project but fell short in several key ways, whilst DS9 exceeded its ambitious and expectations. I'd overall rank them at a similar level of quality.
 

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