Useful weapons you'll get away with carrying?

[Vladd67]

The end of a rolled up magazine applied to the throat at speed can be discouraging.

 

[Luiglin]

This maybe an urban myth. When I practiced a martial art it used to be said that as long as you let your attacker know then that allowed you to defend yourself in a reasonable way.

Although in retrospect this could be a response for any sort of defence of your person.

"Before you try and stomp on my head I have to warn you that I'm armed with a particularly heavy head cold at the moment."

 

[Danny McG]

"Get back or I shall proceed to cover your knuckles with my blood"

 

[thaddeus6th]

A cane could be a good option.

 

[Amelia Faulkner]

FWIW 8-cell Maglites are banned in the UK for this exact reason. They are an offensive weapon more than they are a torch.

Regarding reasonable use of force, telling your attacker that you are a martial artist is totally an urban myth. It will likely, in fact, escalate the situation rather than de-escalate, as your opponent now feels they must come at you with more force to counteract that you are trained.

There is such a thing in UK law as justifiable use of force. This means that you may match like for like, substituting what you have for what your opponent has, and factoring in the threat that you feel.

Example 1:
Your opponent is unarmed. He demands your phone. You scream "I KNOW KUNG FU, ASSHOLE!" then break both his arms.
This is not justifiable.

Example 2:
Your opponent has a knife. He demands your phone. You are unarmed. You disarm him, but he still attempts to attack you. You break one of his arms but he doesn't stop, so you break the other, and finally he stops.
This is justifiable.

Example 3:
Your opponent has a knife and is clearly going to use it. You are not only unarmed, but also completely untrained, so you grab a fire extinguisher and manage a lucky blow to his head, killing him.
This is justifiable.

It's actually not a difficult area of UK law at all. It can get a little sticky if you both came to a knife fight intending to do each other in, for example, but in self-defence it's almost always clear.

As for a cane, yes. This is a common chosen portable weapon, especially among UK martial artists (for example, backswording practitioners). A good hardwood cane is incredibly useful in any number of ways.

 

[Cathbad]

Most self-defense laws in the USA are clear, too. Unfortunately, panic and a few misguided rulings end up with things like the Florida "Stand Your Ground" laws.

 

[Amelia Faulkner]

I have a supplementary to the question in my OP. How does the law react if someone highly trained in martial arts reacts, while unarmed, to being attacked (let's say with a knife, to even things out a little) with what turns out to be lethal force? I've never been involved with the law or law enforcement much, so I really don't know.

Sample scenario; said martial artist is attacked by someone with a fair-sized knife, dodges the initial attack and reacts with a throat strike.

Applies to the UK BTW.

The martial artist is perfectly within their right to deliver incapacitating force if their life is directly at risk in this scenario. That the attacker happened to die during the delivery of said incapacitating force is not an issue.

If the martial artist disarmed the attacker and then killed them (without waiting to see if the attacker still intended to come at them), that's a no-no. The balance of threat and force is no longer justifiable.

I cannot think of a single martial art that only has killing blows. A martial artist always has the option to attempt to incapacitate their opponent, whether through dislocation or breaking of limbs, gaining enough distance to escape, or some other means. If the attempts fail and the attacker is still coming, the martial artist may have to resort to more fatal force - if, for example, their attacker is hopped up on PCP, they pretty much have no pain threshold whatsoever and a broken leg will not stop them (though you really should be able to outrun a guy once you've broken both his legs).

It's also always possible that you knock someone down, but in an unintended or unforeseen circumstance their head collides with the pavement, and that kills them. This is also not the martial artist's fault, and our theoretical martial artist remains on the right side of the law.

This isn't to say there won't be any court case, but the majority of these things will get dropped before they ever reach a courtroom. If they do get to court it's because the situation isn't so clear-cut.

 

[Pyan]

You need to think of things that are easily concealable but easily explainable if found. One old way is snooker/golf ball(s) in a sock..

I'd love to hear your reasonable explanation for being caught carrying snooker balls in a sock in your pocket...

 

[Toby Frost]

I am reminded of the metal detector bit in Spinal Tap.

 

[The Judge]

I have a supplementary to the question in my OP. How does the law react if someone highly trained in martial arts reacts, while unarmed, to being attacked (let's say with a knife, to even things out a little) with what turns out to be lethal force? I've never been involved with the law or law enforcement much, so I really don't know.

Sample scenario; said martial artist is attacked by someone with a fair-sized knife, dodges the initial attack and reacts with a throat strike.

Applies to the UK BTW.

If you want chapter and verse on the issue of self-defence in England and Wales**, PM Ralph Kern who is a serving police officer, but meantime Amelia's precis in her two posts is pretty much it. It's basically common sense -- you escape if you can, but otherwise you can do what is necessary to defend yourself/someone else, and the law accepts that in the heat of the moment fine judgement is impossible. What you can't do is use wholly disproportionate force, or any further force/retaliation if the threat is removed.


** I'm pretty sure it's broadly the same in Scotland and NI, but never forget they have different legal systems

 

[Brian G Turner]

A problem with martial arts, though, can be that there's a huge difference between practicing it in a safe training environment - and then expecting to perform the same moves in a high stress situation where a huge adrenaline rush has made your arms and legs numb.

Rory Miller's great book, Violence for Writers, underlines this point, as well as how difficult it is to train law enforcement officers to face situations involving real-world stress.

And ... just a polite reminder that we don't do political issues on this site.

 

[Luiglin]

I'd love to hear your reasonable explanation for being caught carrying snooker balls in a sock in your pocket...

'Good for my flat foot, Officer. Raises my arches.'

In all honesty you wouldn't normally carry the snooker balls already in the sock. I admit though being caught wandering around with one pocket full of snooker balls and another with an odd sock would be hard to explain. At least they're reasonable to conceal.

 

[Dan Jones]

There’s the infamous Millwall Brick, invented by, er, “resourceful” South London thugs, consisting of just a newspaper.

ETA: I also recommend Rory Miller’s book. It’s grim and graphic reading, but if you want über-realism in your violence (and after reading it, I’m not sure I do), he’s your chap.

 

[Montero]

Carry a pair of socks...... you suffer from sweaty feet and like to change socks part way through the day.

When you buy snooker balls, do they come in a box, or in one of those mesh bag things like oranges?

Come to think of it, one of those mesh bags of oranges would tingle a bit if you swung it good and hard. Shouldn't be lethal, but could be stunning. "I was on my way home with my shopping etc" If you buy it just before going whereever you might need it, have the receipt on you - well you just bought a bag of oranges.... Same goes for a broom, particularly if you buy other stuff at the same time - that you could drop without caring about it.

 

[Cathbad]

I have found a quick wit gets me out of some tough situations.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Imagine someone who feels naked without a weapon

Actually coming back to this - if such a person were so paranoid, wouldn't they be able to turn any ordinary item into a weapon? Wouldn't being creative make them more interesting as a character?

 

[Montero]

Totally.
Which remind me - the TV series "Burn Notice" - MC former CIA uber-agent - amazing what they have him turn into a weapon. Go watch that. Watch it anyway because it's fun.

 

[Mirannan]

A problem with martial arts, though, can be that there's a huge difference between practicing it in a safe training environment - and then expecting to perform the same moves in a high stress situation where a huge adrenaline rush has made your arms and legs numb.

Rory Miller's great book, Violence for Writers, underlines this point, as well as how difficult it is to train law enforcement officers to face situations involving real-world stress.

And ... just a polite reminder that we don't do political issues on this site.

Perhaps relevant; the fact that the character I have in mind is not only a martial artist but has actual experience (and a lot of it) in HTH combat. The authorities don't necessarily know that, though. Explaining why would be very complicated.

 

[Amelia Faulkner]

A problem with martial arts, though, can be that there's a huge difference between practicing it in a safe training environment - and then expecting to perform the same moves in a high stress situation where a huge adrenaline rush has made your arms and legs numb.

This comes down to a lot of factors, including the amount of practice, the amount of experience, but also just the personality of the practitioner.

Likewise for, say, first aid. I've known some first aiders who have, despite all the training in the world, panicked at their first real-life situation, and others who just let the training step up and do its job.

On a completely unscientific note I would suggest that those with the ability to dissociate might do better in the sudden stress situation. The ability to step back and allow training to take over is not one everyone possesses.

 

[Lumens]

This comes down to a lot of factors, including the amount of practice, the amount of experience, but also just the personality of the practitioner.

Likewise for, say, first aid. I've known some first aiders who have, despite all the training in the world, panicked at their first real-life situation, and others who just let the training step up and do its job.

On a completely unscientific note I would suggest that those with the ability to dissociate might do better in the sudden stress situation. The ability to step back and allow training to take over is not one everyone possesses.

I think it is worth stressing that even the best martial artist in the world is unsafe in the various highly unpredictable and impossible to control "street" situations that they may find themseves in. Self defence is not like in the movies, it is dirty and messy, and involves far too many factors to prepare for, even if you have the psychology for it. If anyone thinks otherwise, they have a false sense of confidence.