Why are people so obsessed with WW2?

[Av Demeisen]

@Lafayette The German War: A Nation Under Arms, 1939-45 by Nicholas Stargardt
A study of how ordinary Germans (soldiers & civilians) experienced the Second World War. Published in 2015.

From the blurb:
When war broke out in September 1939, it was deeply unpopular in Germany. Yet without the active participation and commitment of the German people, it could not have continued for almost six years. What, then, was the war Germans thought they were fighting? How did the changing course of the conflict – the victories of the Blitzkrieg, the first defeats in the east, the bombing of Germany’s cities – change their views and expectations? And when did Germans first realise that they were fighting a genocidal war?

Drawing on a wealth of first-hand testimony, The German War is the first foray for many decades into how the German people experienced the Second World War. Told from the perspective of those who lived through it – soldiers, schoolteachers and housewives; Nazis, Christians and Jews – its masterful historical narrative sheds fresh and disturbing light on the beliefs, hopes and fears of a people who embarked on, continued and fought to the end a brutal war of conquest and genocide.

 

[Montero]

So is psychopath a scientific word or term for evil? I wonder could this terminology be construed as another form of political correctness?

It's a scientific term with a definition - and having gone to look for quotes I find that contrary to the documentary I saw, it was first recognised long before WW2. This is an interesting article which is clear - explaining the difference between psychopathy and psychosis.

Psychopathy - Scholarpedia

 

[Dave]

So is psychopath a scientific word or term for evil? I wonder could this terminology be construed as another form of political correctness?

Firstly, I'm not a clinical psychologist. However, I very much doubt that one would ever say, "Hello Mr. Jones, we've run the tests and it turns out that you're a psychopath!" I also believe that current thinking would not put people in boxes as that Scholarpedia definition does i.e. "1% of the population," but on more of a sliding scale where we are all a tiny little bit psychopathic, but a small few are more than others. In this kind of social science it is difficult to give definitive proof and these concepts will be argued over by academics on salaries way above ours for the best parts of a career.

 

[Montero]

@Dave -
I've been thinking on this discussion - which is getting well away from the start of the thread - about how when people work in a group, which means in theory they can achieve far more than an individual (like a barn raising) they have to some extent subsume their individualism to the aims of the group.
When you get onto working in large companies, then you need managers who can make/inspire people to put the company ahead of their desire to get out the door on time. So for managers you need people who are able to put an abstract - the good of the company - ahead of empathy with the employee in front of them. (Ideally you need employees who put the needs of the company ahead of their own without a manager telling them to do it.......)
Incidentally, there was (another) documentary where the carrot and stick methods were tested - two groups of civilians had tasks to carry out and were assigned army NCOs from a basic training establishment to get them motivated and organised. One group was the carrot group, the other the stick. I can't remember now which group won. The NCOs themselves commented that in reality, they'd use a mix. (Pity there wasn't a control group where both methods were used....)
I guess as ever, it's back to everything in moderation.... There was nothing moderate about the Nazis.

 

[Av Demeisen]

However, one of the points I failed to mention is that the movies and tv as a whole paint WWII German soldiers as black. I.e. cruel, vicious, merciless, stupid, and cowardly.

I forgot to mention above that among the many German civilians and soldiers whose lives (through letters, diaries, etc.) form the basis of Stargardt's study is Wilm Hosenfeld, the Wehrmacht intelligence officer who helped pianist Wladyslaw Szpilman in Warsaw. You probably have seen the Roman Polanski film The Pianist that is based on these two men's story? (With what degree of accuracy I can't recall.)

 

[sknox]

The Nazi Seizure of Power is hands down the best book I've read on how something like Nazism can come to your home town. William Sheridan Allen conducted extensive interviews with the people of one small town, which he called Thalburg in order to preserve privacy (first published in 1965). He sets the scene, follows events and people almost day by day through the mid-1930s. I cannot recommend the book highly enough.

And thanks for the recommendation of Stargardt. Looks like that will be a necessary follow-on to Allen.

 

[Brian G Turner]

The German War: A Nation Under Arms, 1939-45 by Nicholas Stargardt

I forgot I had this - I went through a binge of WWII accounts, and am still trying to catch up with them. Even still...

The Nazi Seizure of Power

...has just been added to my Wishlist.

 

[Av Demeisen]

[The Nazi Seizure of Power] has just been added to my Wishlist.

Same here.

 

[Dave]

...has just been added to my Wishlist.

Same here.

You're all obsessed!

 

[Av Demeisen]

You're all obsessed!

The second part of Volkert Ulrich's Hitler biography will be released (in German) this autumn, and I still haven't read Norman Ohler's Blitzed: Drugs in Nazi Germany. Something to look forward to.

 

[Brian G Turner]

You're all obsessed!

I'll have to be if I ever want to seriously write a WWII thriller based in Germany.

 

[Edward M. Grant]

Firstly, I'm not a clinical psychologist. However, I very much doubt that one would ever say, "Hello Mr. Jones, we've run the tests and it turns out that you're a psychopath!"

There's been an accepted psychological test for psychopathy for decades. But it would probably be a bad idea to tell a psychopath that you've run the test and determined that they are.

One thing to remember about the Nazis (which I think I mentioned earlier in this thread) is that many of them--including Hitler--were stoned on meth, which probably accounts for a significant amount of their behaviour.

 

[Montero]

One thing to remember about the Nazis (which I think I mentioned earlier in this thread) is that many of them--including Hitler--were stoned on meth, which probably accounts for a significant amount of their behaviour.

Huh, now that I didn't know. Just went to look up whether President Kennedy really used cocaine and there is a website out there on the drug habits (or not) of loads of presidents. Does at least say to what extent the evidence is hearsay.

 

[Edward M. Grant]

The use of meth is pretty well documented. I forget what they called it at the time, but it was mass-produced and shipped out to the troops, particularly on the Eastern Front.

Hitler was getting a cocktail of drugs from his pet doctor. Which is probably why he made some crazy decisions and went downhill rapidly near the end of the war. Years of that stuff has to take a horrible toll on your body.

 

[Lafayette]

Okay, now we have the drugs. Now, where is the sex and rock'n'roll?

 

[Av Demeisen]

Okay, now we have the drugs. Now, where is the sex and rock'n'roll?

None of that! Entartete Musik.

 

[Dave]

I wasn't aware of the drugs, but that explanation of behaviour makes sense.

 

[Montero]

Can't help wondering whether the drug habit caused the war, or shortened it - I guess depends on how much and when. Hitler attacking Russia was a bonkers move.

Oh, and you can bring in sex.....penicillin was developed and came into use in the latter part of WW2 - and a lot was used curing Allied troops of venereal disease. The Nazis didn't have it...

And not Rock and Roll - but jazz - the Nazis banned it as degenerate music. Germans couldn't listen to it or play it, but the Nazis didn't care about the countries they'd conquered and there was a thriving jazz scene in Paris in WW2. (Source of that - documentary called Tunes for Tyrants which is worth watching.)

 

[Edward M. Grant]

Hitler attacking Russia was a bonkers move.

Not really. Stalin was making plans to attack Germany, so the battle would have happened sooner or later. Hitler just ensured it happened on his terms.

Declaring war on America... now that was a bonkers move.

 

[Edward M. Grant]

Now, where is the sex and rock'n'roll?

Read up on the history of the Brownshirts.