Fictional languages

If some is someone else, pardon me for answering for them.

I speak bluntly, I'm too dull-witted to be clever. 'Some people' means exactly that. Some, not all, most or many. Nevertheless, being a group discussion, your input is as valuable as any other's. That said, my comment was not directed 'at you,' just simply cast out there for anyone to chew on.

So why did the author go to the trouble of creating a language if they have no intention of the reader learning it?

EDIT: Oh, and for the record, of the few languages I've developed, ultimately all of them have been learned to some degree by 'some' ;) of the readers. Quite often responding how it inspired them to get into the story more, once they caught on.

K2
 
I thought I'd outlined some possible reasons, previously?
Not that I saw in terms of actually needing to create a completely new language. Then I gave an example with two passages, one being in Tagalog and the other jibberish.
 
If I’m going to be brutally honest, I think that this sort of worldbuilding, whilst entertaining for the writer, can be something of a distraction from the important business of writing a good story. I would be more interested in how one language absorbs words or ideas from another language. For instance, George Macdonald Fraser’s war memoirs, which are in the British/Indian army, have a lot of Indian slang words.

On the other hand, if you can make up a language and write a good story, all the better.
 
If I’m going to be brutally honest, I think that this sort of worldbuilding, whilst entertaining for the writer, can be something of a distraction from the important business of writing a good story. I would be more interested in how one language absorbs words or ideas from another language. For instance, George Macdonald Fraser’s war memoirs, which are in the British/Indian army, have a lot of Indian slang words.

On the other hand, if you can make up a language and write a good story, all the better.
You are, of course, correct that this sort of world building can be a distraction. However, I am sure you recognize that the imperative word there is "can", as it is entirely possible not to be distracted by this. Additionally, it seems to me that is true of any sort of world building. Nearly any sort of world building can be a distraction if one is not careful, though it is necessary.

I would also add, though, that this sort of world building is particularly temping to show off in story. Thosee of us who do make languages must keep in mind our stories are not for the purpose of showing off our languages; our languages are to be an enhancement to the story.

Great reminder. Thanks for sharing!
 
If I’m going to be brutally honest, I think that this sort of worldbuilding, whilst entertaining for the writer, can be something of a distraction from the important business of writing a good story.

To that I would counter, it can also be used to vastly deepen, enhance and enrich the characters in your story, and that it can help you to truly define their culture.

That said... Moderation in all things. You could sit down and try pounding out say a thousand word vocabulary, usage rules and so on, or, you can as I suggest determine the culture first to dictate the guidelines, and then simply build your vocabulary as needed. By doing so, you accomplish the work, without the distraction, and all of the enhancement.

K2
 
To keep this rolling, in what I'm working on now there is a language called "Pastoral Pidgin/Slang" or by those who use it "P-say or P-speak." Initially as I wrote this I decided to check the official definition of a 'pidgin language' in that I was afraid 'my take' on it was wrong... However, the Wikipedia definition fits perfectly, so here it is;

A pidgin, or pidgin language, is a grammatically simplified means of communication that develops between two or more groups that do not have a language in common: typically, its vocabulary and grammar are limited and often drawn from several languages. It is most commonly employed in situations such as trade, or where both groups speak languages different from the language of the country in which they reside (but where there is no common language between the groups). Fundamentally, a pidgin is a simplified means of linguistic communication, as it is constructed impromptu, or by convention, between individuals or groups of people. A pidgin is not the native language of any speech community, but is instead learned as a second language.

A pidgin may be built from words, sounds, or body language from a multitude of languages as well as onomatopoeia. As the lexicon of any pidgin will be limited to core vocabulary, words with only a specific meaning in lexifier language may acquire a completely new (or additional) meaning in the pidgin.

Pidgins have historically been considered a form of patois, unsophisticated simplified versions of their lexifiers, and as such usually have low prestige with respect to other languages.

Without going into it too much, I kept in mind that it would be made up of virtually every language that might be found in the N.E.-U.S., Caribbean, Canada... any dialects, accents (phonetically), etc.. In a nutshell, anything and everything the world over with the degree of influence determined by the 'non-merged' rough population percentage.

Confusing? Not at all! Instead of approaching it as though I had to wade through all of these languages, find commonalities and so on... I instead took the approach that 'English is the dominating language. All other languages simply add to it (or more true whittle it down) dependent upon the word's simplicity and what it 'inferred' to me at first blush. So, that meant 'anything and everything' was available to me.

From experience, I also realized that much of any form of pidgin, even dialects is 'slang.' Finally, softer slang derivatives of expletives tend to make up a portion of dialects. So essentially, instead of trying to rigidly formalize some new language, I would loosely do as any group does when they come up with their own 'lingo.' I would try to be cute, clever, sarcastic, vulgar, and ALWAYS keep in mind 'SIMPLIFY.'

The easiest way to simplify is, have 'a word' mean many things dependent upon its context. Ex.:
Bitty – little, few, small
Bob – big, a-lot, many, large
Fancy – fancy, nice, high quality, expensive
Flat – sure, firm, positive

Words could also be emphasized by using adjectives and adverbs attached onto them. As an example:
Yacha – understand?
Bobyacha – absolutely clear/straight/understand
Bittyyacha – kind/sort of understand
So why not use "Flatyacha?" Because first off it doesn't roll of the tongue (which is a big part of slang). Secondly because 'just because,' no other reason, I chose to have certain words like Bob and Bitty work as modifiers and not others.

Remember, this is 'your language.' As long as you can have it make sense, develop rules and reasons that fit 'your culture,' and the rules 'you set down,' and flow, why sweat it?

Don't get me wrong...

I'm sure a linguist is going to tell me that I'm just making up "kinder Englisch," but if you think about it, that's what a lot of slang really is.

Anywho, I reckon I've bored you folks enough with my nonsense. Next time I'll try and explain how I'm applying it in my stories.

K2
 
I do like the use of language in The Expanse. Done in just the right amounts.
I have taken the easy way out. My world is an alternate Earth, so I can dip freely into French, Spanish, Catalan, Schweizerdeutsch or whatever fits the place and time. I also craft a few words.

Example: I wanted a place that was similar to a monastery (cloistered and isolated) but was different, mainly because I did not want my readers to pull out the stereotypes they would have if I said "monks." So I went to the Latin and called the place a cenobitum, and its members cenobites. The former is not a legitimate word, but the latter is. As another example from the same work, I have the cittern-playing Catalan called a "trovador." The word is so close to troubador, I let one of the characters note the similarity.

Playing around with words like that does, I believe, add a layer to the story. Plus, fun with words.
 

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