'Elitist': angry book pirates hit back after author campaign sinks website

[tinkerdan]

When considering libraries; a number of things come to mind. Well, at least to my mind; however we already know that my mind is somewhat different.

Around here the libraries offer ebooks so in essence they get ebooks and loan them out; however the thought there is that they pay for those books. I for one have smashwords make my books available to libraries for .99 US. So if the alleged pirate site was an authentic library that obtained books this way I think I could see the argument against having been shut down.

I'm not sure that any libraries have my books. And I haven't looked clearly into the whole process to see what if anything is made when someone checks it out of the library ebook shelf. I suspect I wouldn't make much if anything. However I don't think they can have more checked out than the number they have purchased(I'm just guessing here.).

In some small twisted way the pirate site could mirror this if:
They paid for the book once.(For each copy they want to Loan.)
They make no money on the loan of the book.
If they limit the loan to one customer at a time until it is returned.(Meaning multiple rentals would require multiple copies.)

Then they would be like the library.

And ( if they were some sort of paid service and they paid something each time they loan) as with Amazon's service and they render the copy unusable by the end of the rental.

Also this would be similar to how each kindle user has the ability to loan a book out which diabolically amazon somehow disables the user's copy while the loan is in place and restore it when the loan is finished.

Personally I'd be more concerned with copies that are sold without my having any way of gaining the appropriate author commission for the sale(the freebies I mostly like to know about so I know the number of People allegedly reading my book).

I also like to consider the notion of taking books to the used bookstore and trading for other books. In this case the author doesn't get anything for this transfer except perhaps a new fan; however it assumes that someone properly purchased the original and the author did receive the money for that.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

A lot have been closed in the UK, and some of the ones that are still open can only stay open by using volunteer help.

Over here loads open if you have a card even when not staffed. Works really well

 

[Parson]

I honestly don't know how widespread it is. I am reasonably sure my local library doesn't have that option, but the flipside for me is that every county on my rural peninsula has a library, and several have more than one, plus there is a mobile library. One needn't drive more than about 20 minutes anywhere you are to find a library, assuming it doesn't come to you! So, I would be astonished if much of America's population doesn't have ready access to a library.

The point I was trying to make, though, is that we already have systems in place to address these isssues, if we would use them more and invest in their development. We as a society tend to be more focused on attacking the problem, though, rather than addressing the demand for the problem. Without a demand, there is no piracy, as there is no value in stealing it.

The libraries in my county to indeed have online lending of some books. I think it would greatly increase if it were used more. As was noted earlier in this thread, many books, especially ebooks, are very inexpensive. Often less than the price of a soda! So most people simply buy rather than use the e-library, and therefore the e-library is not greatly used.

 

[Onyx]

This thread just seems to document a massive technological failure on the part of epublishers. How is it that they have managed to create a product that is so easy to copy in the age of cryptocurrency? The books should be encoded so that only the owner of a specific copy of a program can unlock the book once they have the token.

As far as poor people go, I'm not sure if free access to the newest Danielle Steele novel ought to be something anyone should be concerned with.

 

[Danny McG]

A lot have been closed in the UK, and some of the ones that are still open can only stay open by using volunteer help.

Two local (to me) branch libraries have closed since Easter.

The main library in the town centre is currently moving to smaller premises on a side street with no parking.

To get to that side street means first getting over a very busy main road with no nearby pedestrian crossing facilities.

 

[thaddeus6th]

Onyx, unfortunately, because of the nature of a book, someone sufficiently patient could simply copy it, whether by the old OCR (optical character recognition) method or just typing it up. Even if there were 100% perfect protection of an electronic version, it's impossible for books to be immune to such things.

 

[Onyx]

Onyx, unfortunately, because of the nature of a book, someone sufficiently patient could simply copy it, whether by the old OCR (optical character recognition) method or just typing it up. Even if there were 100% perfect protection of an electronic version, it's impossible for books to be immune to such things.

Sure, but is that's what happening, or is the copying much less labor intensive than optical scanning or retyping?

A lot of crimes happen because they are easy, not because they fail to be impossible.

 

[Vertigo]

This thread just seems to document a massive technological failure on the part of epublishers. How is it that they have managed to create a product that is so easy to copy in the age of cryptocurrency? The books should be encoded so that only the owner of a specific copy of a program can unlock the book once they have the token.

As far as poor people go, I'm not sure if free access to the newest Danielle Steele novel ought to be something anyone should be concerned with.

The music industry attempted to do this many times and always failed. I have a Sky album from way way back that has an inaudible tone on it that creates a very audible beat frequency when recorded to tape. However every attempt to do this was foiled by people producing various gadgets that circumvented all their mechanisms. The most recent attempt was, I believe, by Apple with their own proprietary digital format. This was also hacked and I believe Apple have now given up on it. The film industry has also made many similar attempts which, to the best of my knowledge, have also all failed.

The book industry already has exactly what you describe - DRM. When you buy an ebook from Amazon it can only be read on the device registered with Amazon. Give it to someone else and they can't read it even if they too have a Kindle (the loaning mechanism is somewhat different in that, I believe, the loaned book is temporarily recoded for the other person's device by the loaning mechanism). So the DRM is absolutely tied to one particular device. The problem is that the 'device' includes software apps like 'Kindle for PC' and, though I don't know exactly how they work, these hacks in some way emulate the software using the key stored in, I expect, the registry and then 'read' the ebook and resave it without the DRM encryption. The argument in favour of this is that the system as it stands means that if you buy a Kindle and then buy loads of AZW ebooks to read on your kindle and then, at a later date, replace your kindle with, say, a Nook, you will be unable to read ANY of your previously purchased ebooks because they are in the wrong format for the Nook and can only be converted by hacking the encryption.

So the issue is really not all that simple.

 

[Stephen Palmer]

Onyx makes the important point here.
Ebook piracy is rife in part because it's so easy. The same with music.

 

[Vertigo]

Onyx makes the important point here.
Ebook piracy is rife in part because it's so easy. The same with music.

Yes I agree, and I'd also add that the industry's failure to do this more securely is also why I don't trust the storing of any critical data on the cloud. It will (not might) get hacked. It's only a matter of time.

I should also add to my previous post that the problem for users on books is far worse that for music or film because they all use international open standards for their storage mechanisms. Meaning that any music or film/tv media you buy can be played on any standard player. The only exception to this was Apple's attempt at imposing their onw proprietary format which meant music on that format could only be played on Apple kit. This failed whereas currently Amazon are still pushing their own proprietary format which cannot be read on anyone else's kit. Which, incidentally, provides a significant foundation for Amazon's dominance of the market.

 

[thaddeus6th]

It is a sound point, Onyx, though I'd reiterate my earlier post that the most important shift won't be technological but cultural. The idea that theft is ok because it's being framed as giving the poor access to books is what needs defeating.

 

[Vertigo]

It is a sound point, Onyx, though I'd reiterate my earlier post that the most important shift won't be technological but cultural. The idea that theft is ok because it's being framed as giving the poor access to books is what needs defeating.

Agreed, that was really the point of my post; that technological solutions have never and, I believe, will never solve the problem. The problem is, as you say, cultural and that's a real difficult one to address. Especially as that sort of opportunism has always been there but digital instead of physical media just makes it much easier.

 

[AlexH]

Onyx, unfortunately, because of the nature of a book, someone sufficiently patient could simply copy it, whether by the old OCR (optical character recognition) method or just typing it up. Even if there were 100% perfect protection of an electronic version, it's impossible for books to be immune to such things.

I like how map makers (like Ordnance Survey) put fake streets in their maps so they know if their map has been copied. For books, a different word here and there would be easy to find with today's technology, but I'm sure publishers could figure something out for books that are pirated ahead of the launch date, until the piraters figure a way around it...

 

[BAYLOR]

Theft is theft and those people who engage in book and story piracy aught to ashamed of themselves . But they're not, they've lost that capacity. They ruin it for everyone else.

 

[Stephen Palmer]

It's a classic case of the distance between action and consequence being so large people don't care.
The internet, for all its advantages, encourages this distance to become far larger.
The only way around it is for buyers to acquire a conscience. To be fair, some do.

 

[Steve Harrison]

It's a classic case of the distance between action and consequence being so large people don't care.
The internet, for all its advantages, encourages this distance to become far larger.
The only way around it is for buyers to acquire a conscience. To be fair, some do.

That's right. It's why some people feel that it's OK to insult, threaten and abuse people on social media, but would not dare behave that way in person. Someone who steals a book on online would not consider going into a bookshop and snatching a book, yet they somehow convince themselves that one of these behaviours is acceptable.

 

[BAYLOR]

That's right. It's why some people feel that it's OK to insult, threaten and abuse people on social media, but would not dare behave that way in person. Someone who steals a book on online would not consider going into a bookshop and snatching a book, yet they somehow convince themselves that one of these behaviours is acceptable.

Anonymity shields people from the consequences of their words and actions.

 

[Onyx]

I think there is also a problem of people truly wrapping their minds around the idea that something that isn't physical can truly have value. Anyone younger than 60 is comfortable with the idea that a mix tape is a convenience, not theft. In our minds the book has value because it was printed, bound and shipped. To us, the words come free when you buy the binding. The infinite fidelity of cloned digital media does not fit the paradigm.

 

[Cathbad]

It's been four decades, @Onyx ... I don't think your argument still applies. It's theft, and those perpetrating it know they're stealing.

 

[Onyx]

It's been four decades, @Onyx ... I don't think your argument still applies. It's theft, and those perpetrating it know they're stealing.

I'm not making an argument to support theft, I'm saying that maybe we haven't really accepted that pure information has value in the same way a physical object has. And that lack of deep connection to intellectual property allows dissonant behavior in otherwise moral people.