Villeneuve's Dune: Part One (2019)

[ctg]

It was pretty decent. There seemed to be a lot of dream sequences, but thankfully not too much staring at sand, which I had worried about since watching the Blade Runner sequel.

Oh dear, dream sequences. Villeneuve has to get over them and only include the important bits, like the stuff Paul gets from spice and seeing his future. Did you had any pacing problems?

 

[Toby Frost]

That's a hard question to answer, as it's very long and feels lengthy, but really has to be to get all the ideas in. I reckon a really ruthless edit could shave 15-20 minutes off the running time, but I didn't feel that it was much too long, as I felt with Blade Runner 2049.

To me, the problem with panoramas and overlong shots of the area is that they're distancing and comforting - even in an industrial hellhole like the Blade Runner world. I didn't think that about Dune.

I have to say that the music did little for me and some of the mixing seemed slightly off, but then I'm not a huge fan of Hans Zimmer anyhow.

 

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Denis Villeneuve will get the chance to create the second film of his planned two-part adaptation of Frank Herbert’s “Dune,” Legendary Entertainment and Warner Bros. said Tuesday.
The news comes after Villeneuve’s “Dune” tallied $41 million at the domestic box office during its debut over the weekend, a solid haul considering the film also launched on HBO Max Friday. Globally, the film hauled in $220 million.

While Warner Bros. seemed keen to greenlight a second film for Villeneuve, Legendary owns the cinematic rights to the novel and had to be onboard in order to continue the story on the big screen.
The second film is expected to follow Paul Atreides (Timothee Chalamet) as he joins the Fremen and works to bring peace to the desert planet of Arrakis.
“Dune: Part Two” will debut Oct. 20, 2023.

'Dune' sequel greenlit by Legendary and Warner Bros.

Denis Villeneuve will get the chance to create the second film of his planned two-part adaptation of Frank Herbert's "Dune."

www.cnbc.com

Oscar winning Dune screenwriter Eric Roth banged out the screenplay using the MS-DOS program Movie Master. Roth writes everything using the 30-year-old software. "I work on an old computer program that's not in existence anymore," Roth said in an interview in 2014. "It's half superstition and half fear of change." Roth wrote the screenplay for Dune in 2018 and explained he was still using Movie Master on a Barstool Sports podcast in 2020. That means Dune was written in an MS-DOS program.

In the video, he pulled up a DOS window in Windows XP and booted up Movie Master 3.09 on an ancient beige mechanical keyboard. "So now I'm in DOS. Nobody can get on the internet and get this," Roth said. "I have to give them a hard copy. They have to scan it and then put it in their computers and then I have to work through their computer because you can't even email mine or anything. You can't get to it except where it is. It has 40 pages and it runs out of memory." [...] Roth also said the 40 page limit helps him structure his screenplays."I like it because it makes acts," he said. "I realize if I hadn't said it in 40 pages I'm starting to get in trouble."

The 'Dune' Screenplay Was Written In MS-DOS - Slashdot

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: Oscar winning Dune screenwriter Eric Roth banged out the screenplay using the MS-DOS program Movie Master. Roth writes everything using the 30-year-old software. "I work on an old computer program that's not in existence anymore," Roth said...

tech.slashdot.org

 

[G.T.]

Saw this on Monday and thought it was decent, but I actually prefer Lynch's Dune as a piece of storytelling. I'm not a Dune fan by any means, but I did enjoy the books.

Some things that just I didn't like I'll put in spoilers just in case.

Spoiler

They make a big deal of Gurney's training of the Atreides army. I guess this is so we know Paul is a decent fighter. The Duke and others (but not Paul) arrive on Arrakis in heavy battle armor. When the Harkonnen's attack, no one is wearing battle armor. Everyone seems to have left it far away from wherever they were. Gurney is pulling on his jacket as he runs outside. A well-trained army would keep its weapons and armor close by, right? Not these guys, they all seem to just have swords. It seemed silly after harping on about how good the Atreides soldiers were. They could have made that battle epic, instead it seemed like a bunch of fools running to their deaths. They show us a hand carried rock cutting laser later in the film, that alone could kill hundreds of enemies if swept across them, but no I want to use my sword with no armor.

When Paul meets the Fremen after their escape, he is challenged to a fight because one of them doesn't think he is worth their effort. Despite he has just knocked the guy over and escaped up the rocks. He has Chani behind him, but he doesn't know she is there. It seemed out of place for one guy to be so adamantly against Paul, even though Jessica has Stilgar captive and Paul has a weapon trained on them. Not sure if this matches the book, but it just felt wrong to me.

They make a big deal of Fremen surviving in the desert and how you wouldn't last 2 hrs without a suit out there. But most of the time they go around mouth breathing through the desert despite showing us the mask part of the suit several times. It was like they decided to throw away that part of the suit in favour of face shots of the actors. Don't make something a big deal and then not use it.

The audio was bad in parts. Dream sequences where someone is saying something and music swells at the start and you only get the second half of a sentence. It happens a few times. Now I saw it in IMAX so maybe that caused some sound issues, but really if you are the sound engineer or the editor, surely you can make 100% sure the voice is audible? If I can't hear it first time, then you've done something wrong. It felt like they knew what was being said so didn't notice it was in-audible because they could hear it, knowing what was meant to be said.

My complaints might sound like bashing, but I didn't think it was bad at all. It was long but didn't feel overly long, they could definitely tighten it up a bit. They had a decent budget, but the things that I didn't like, I think, are things that could have been addressed with a bit of common sense.

 

[Toby Frost]

Some of your comments I'd put down to dramatic licence and things looking cool (and allowing you to see the actors' faces). If I was in the desert, I'd want to wear goggles as well as a full stillsuit. I agree that the armour all seemed pretty useless, but I think the guys running out had shields activated, which seems to make all the difference in the setting. There is actually some stuff in the background about why you wouldn't use a laser on shields (basically they explode). I agree about the sound mixing. Several times I lost the end of a sentence because the score was making a honking sound.

 

[ctg]

Spoiler

The Duke and others (but not Paul) arrive on Arrakis in heavy battle armor. When the Harkonnen's attack, no one is wearing battle armor. Everyone seems to have left it far away from wherever they were. Gurney is pulling on his jacket as he runs outside. A well-trained army would keep its weapons and armor close by, right? Not these guys, they all seem to just have swords.

Spoiler

Well, the first thing about the armour is that you might forget the shield. In Frank Herbert's Dune universe, the 'energy shield' will stop everything thrown at it. That's why you need swords and blades, so that you can bypass the shield with a 'slow moving edge.'

So for the alarm you need your shield and a blade. The rest is extra.

They make a big deal of Fremen surviving in the desert and how you wouldn't last 2 hrs without a suit out there. But most of the time they go around mouth breathing through the desert despite showing us the mask part of the suit several times. It was like they decided to throw away that part of the suit in favour of face shots of the actors. Don't make something a big deal and then not use it.

You've miss understood the still suit. It is not the atmosphere that is killing them. They can breath it, it's the vaporisation, the loss of liquids that is killing them, because in the Dune world there's no surface water. It's all in aquifers and in other deep reservoirs, like what we have in Mars and Ceres today.

The still suit captures the essential juices, but you still have a problem with the number two. No workaround with that stuff, unfortunately. And you must know from Covid experience that it is difficult to speak clearly, while wearing a mask.

They could have got around that with technology, but then the sound would have been even more garbled. So essentially the writer might go through all the processes, but for the film industry they need faces and lip motions.

 

[Elckerlyc]

Spoiler: Additionally

I got the impression the armour is for ceremonies only. We only see them wearing it at their debarkation at Arrakis, when there was no real reason other than ceremonial (inspecting the guard) to wear it. If there was a threat than Jessica and Paul would not have debarked at the same time. Nor did anyone wear armour at their training. It is all shield depending. Better than some piece of metal.
Besides that, when the alarm when the Harkonnen troops were already everywhere. There wasn't time to put on armour, if at all needed.

Goggles to go whit the masks was what I missed. It would have made more sense. But as with removing the masks before speaking, the full outfit and communicating does not go well together. Certainly not for the movie-watcher. It happens in all the adaptations I have seen.

 

[G.T.]

Spoiler

You've miss understood the still suit. It is not the atmosphere that is killing them. They can breath it, it's the vaporisation, the loss of liquids that is killing them, because in the Dune world there's no surface water. It's all in aquifers and in other deep reservoirs, l

That was my point. You lose a lot of moisture out of an open mouth, but here are these guys, desert experts all going around not using the face mask part of their stillsuit...all of the time.

I get that there is a lot of background information about the Dune universe that might explain a lot of the things I mentioned, but if they aren't made clear in the film, then the film is presenting it poorly. No one should need a primer in order to understand things.

 

[Elckerlyc]

No one should need a primer in order to understand things.

I agree. It the one real issue I have with this movie. By trying to avoid exposition, it fails to give enough background information to fully understand and/or appreciate what is happening. Especially for people who haven't read the books (or did so 50 odd years ago.)

 

[Venusian Broon]

I'm interested, how did the Navigators look like?

The representatives of the guild were the guys with the orange cloud of melange in the bubble helmets behind the Imperial herald. When the camera was close enough you could see a human face inside. They are in the blur at the back of this photo I found t'internet

However, I'm sure they are not a 'full' Navigator, but one on the journey to perhaps become one, as Villeneuve presents a lot of the visuals very much more in-line with the book description. A real guild navigator would be an extremely distorted human.

 

[Venusian Broon]

Saw it last night. Cinema was packed. First time all year. I loved every minute of it. I am biased as I am a big fan of the director.

Excellent then I am in good company! I loved it too. Yes I do think it helps if you've read the book (and you can get through that, some can't, I know) and therefore I didn't have any problem with any of the weird spice-dream bits - I knew what Villeneuve was trying to protray, and what they really meant for Paul. (My book memories are generally very good, and it's only been about 15 -20 years since I last read Dune...)

I don't know what I would have thought if I had never come across this franchaise at all. The best cut of the Lynch film has about an hour of exposition right at the start (with about 15 minutes of a voice narration over 'paintings' of the Butlerian Jihad, if my memory serves me right) to try and pack in the complex universe Herbert gives you in the book.

If Villeneuve had done something like that I don't think it would have satisified the Dune-heads like me, nor the causual film-goers and therefore would have probably flopped. I think he had to pick a side, and for example like the recent adaption of Stephen King's It, he gambled that there were enough fans and readers heavily invested in a more faithful adaption, rather go for the Rocky Horror show and garbled dynamics that was Lynch's Dune (albeit it had some good moments and I still think it's okay )

 

[svalbard]

I have a soft spot for Lynch's version. I agree on all your points. Although it is years since I read the book and the sequels I did think that Villaneuve had got it spot on. Not just with Paul and Jessica, but Stilgar, Gurney, Duncan and the other supporting characters. His vision matched that of Herbert's

 

[Venusian Broon]

I have a soft spot for Lynch's version. I agree on all your points. Although it is years since I read the book and the sequels I did think that Villaneuve had got it spot on. Not just with Paul and Jessica, but Stilgar, Gurney, Duncan and the other supporting characters. His vision matched that of Herbert's

Just have to add to that list (from the 'other') the Harkonnens, with Stellan Skarsgard and Dave Bautista really hitting the spot for me too. Dripping with malice and a more believeable enemy than the Lynch version. The moment when the Baron floats over the table, out of focus, towards Leto is fantastic.

 

[svalbard]

I think Toby mentioned it earlier about Stellan channeling his inner Colonel Kurtz. It was actually a topic of conversation as we left the cinema. Yeah, I thought they were brilliant as the Harkonnens. Stellan Skarsgaard is a wonderful actor.

 

[Venusian Broon]

I think Toby mentioned it earlier about Stellan channeling his inner Colonel Kurtz. It was actually a topic of conversation as we left the cinema. Yeah, I thought they were brilliant as the Harkonnens. Stellan Skarsgaard is a wonderful actor.

Sorry, gushing a bit now but the Sardaukar introduction on Salusa Secundus blew me away too., especially in IMAX. The throat singing, the really bizarre shaped priest, the blood sacrifices with the priestesses (?) marking blood on the men...as you say, Villeneuve got it spot on with the right feel. These are the guys the galaxy fears.

 

[svalbard]

Sorry, gushing a bit now but the Sardaukar introduction on Salusa Secundus blew me away too., especially in IMAX. The throat singing, the really bizarre shaped priest, the blood sacrifices with the priestesses (?) marking blood on the men...as you say, Villeneuve got it spot on with the right feel. These are the guys the galaxy fears.

The fan boy in me came out in this scene. The Sardaukar were poorly represented in Lynch's movie. The setting for this was great. The fact that their language was subtitled added to the atmosphere, as well as Villeneuve's distinct use of the soundtrack. Couldn't make out whether the sacrifices were male or female. It was a stunning scene though.

Villeneuve kept to the core here too. The Atreides were too strong for the Harkonnen and needed Sardaukar legions to ensure victory.

 

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The new Dune film covers the first half of Herbert's original novel, and Dune: Part Two will tackle the rest. But Villeneuve believes that adapting Dune Messiah on top of that is important to conveying the full saga of Paul Atreides

"I always envisioned three movies," Villeneuve says. "It's not that I want to do a franchise, but this is Dune, and Dune is a huge story. In order to honor it, I think you would need at least three movies. That would be the dream. To follow Paul Atreides and his full arc would be nice."

As Herbert readers know, the world of Dune gets stranger with every book. By the end of Children of Dune, one character has begun to transform themself into a human-sandworm hybrid that becomes the title character of God Emperor of Dune. Adapting that transformation might be too much even for Villeneuve, but he's definitely interested in Dune Messiah.

"Herbert wrote six books, and the more he was writing, the more it was getting psychedelic," Villeneuve says. "So I don't know how some of them could be adapted. One thing at a time. If I ever have the chance to do Dune: Part Two and Dune Messiah, I'm blessed."

Why stop at 2 'Dune' movies? Denis Villeneuve wants to make 'at least 3'

After 'Dune: Part Two,' director Denis Villeneuve wants to tackle Frank Herbert's 'Dune Messiah' as well.

ew.com

Hhhmmm, it could be a thing, but it would also mean more dream sequences as Paul travel through spice induced hazes to being the god emperor for the humanity. It would give more room for the tribe, but important thing is that Chani should become another perspective for the viewers to watch. It would also mean many more worms. And some totally bonkers fighting as the Fremen takes over the universe.

 

[Toby Frost]

The Sardaukar were quite well-done, and reminded me of a toned-down and less daft version of Warhammer's Space Wolves (Vikings in space). The book drops some pretty big hints that they're basically Nazis, so the film portrayal was surprising and interesting.

I remember reading that the original plan for the Lynch Sardaukar was to put them in armour, but it was felt that Star Wars had got there first. The Lynch Harkonnens looked much better than the Lynch Sardaukar.

However, I felt that the recent Dune, as opposed to the Lynch one, had a few moments where it felt a little bit flat in the imagination department. Each faction got a scene with loads of soldiers lined up in a drab landscape, to show that they all had a lot of guys. Fine, but the setting requires something a little stranger to me. Maybe we'll have Brad Douriff's hair and Sting's space pants in the sequel. I do like the little chanting bloke in the tower, though. He must have had an interesting job interview.

 

[Venusian Broon]

Why stop at 2 'Dune' movies? Denis Villeneuve wants to make 'at least 3'

After 'Dune: Part Two,' director Denis Villeneuve wants to tackle Frank Herbert's 'Dune Messiah' as well.

ew.com

Hhhmmm, it could be a thing, but it would also mean more dream sequences as Paul travel through spice induced hazes to being the god emperor for the humanity. It would give more room for the tribe, but important thing is that Chani should become another perspective for the viewers to watch. It would also mean many more worms. And some totally bonkers fighting as the Fremen takes over the universe.

A Dune Messiah movie would at least complete (sort of) the Paul Arteides arc. (He does appear in Children of Dune, but that book is the start of Leto's arc, and he's more of a secondary character in that book.)

Messiah is really Paul's fall and what he does to ensure that his son, Leto, becomes the God Emperor. It's also his failure to handle what needs to be done for the fuure as well... although again we only really find out with Children and God Emperor why this is the case. Essentially he gives the job to Leto. Bad parent.

 

[svalbard]

If part 2 is successful I would hope we would see Dune Messiah.