Game of Thrones: 8.04 - The Last of the Starks

[ctg]

Well, there we have it... I'll not start an episode 5 thread being @ctg 's thing... but:

By all means you could have started it. I didn't do it earlier, because of HBO has been closely guarding the episode titles, and I don't want to cause Mods any extra work.

 

[ctg]

Edit: Actually, several character names are now trending on Twitter. I'd avoid social media completely. And any TV, radio or newspapers. It will be exactly like that The Likely Lads episode for the rest of today (reworked by Ant and Dec 20 years later.)

Facebook is clear. Only cats pictures and other stuff. I'd avoid twitter anyway.

 

[zmunkz]

Sorry I got here and saw a couple post in here already, and wanted to stay with the conversation. Thought the spoiler tags kept things appropriate.

 

[Dave]

I didn't do it earlier, because of HBO has been closely guarding the episode titles.

If I knew the titles and had the time to spare, I would do that, but we don't know the titles. As Brian says, anyone can start a new thread, but check one isn't open first as two were opened earlier.

I still don't know what happens BTW so, thank you I'll try to watch it later.

 

[Ursa major]

I still don't know what happens BTW so, thank you I'll try to watch it later.

I don't really want to spoil it for you, Dave, but I just can't stop myself from mentioning...




















...Euron going waterskiing behind one of his ships, particularly the bit where he jumps a shark....

 

[Brian G Turner]

This felt a little flat to me, though I guess after the intense action of the last episode it was inevitable there would be something of a breather. Even then, we have the growing concern of Jon vs Dany for the throne, Gendry being refused by Arya despite his new title (that was generous of Dany - I thought she might frown at his Baratheon connection) - and then, of course, the dramatic moment when one of the dragons was killed.

Though Dany is angry, I don't seem to recall her getting very upset when any of her dragons die - perhaps her grieving would be covered more in the books.

Also, Varys's pointed remark to Tyrion about his drinking pricked up my ears - if Varys seeks Dany's removal, he has just identified that Tyrion could be easy to poison through his excessive wine-drinking (also emphasized by the drinking "game" earlier.

Oh, and thank goodness we didn't see a love scene between Jaime and Brienne - I was really dreading another gratuitous excuse for nudity!

Euron destroying the fleet seemed a little too easy, as with killing the dragon. Still, it emphasizes that Dany's power is growing weaker in Westeros, as underlined by the limited show of her forces outside of the city walls of King's Landing. Was surprised to see no town outside the gates, or signs of one recently cleared, though.

Jaime heading back to King's Landing can only mean that he aims to kill Cersei. And with Arya joining the Hound and the pointed comment about leaving him to die before, does this mean that at a crucial moment when the Hound is vulnerable against Gregor in their inevitable duel, she does something to help Sandor therefore achieve this? I'm presuming it might involve fire - we will see.

Sansa was a little annoying for pushing against the whole Dany business - it seemed a surprise that after everything she's gone through, Sansa wants Team Stark against the world, when they clearly cannot achieve anything else by themselves. Perhaps why that's why Sandor underlined her brutal treatment before, not least under Ramsey (literally), and hence providing an explanation for Sansa's hardness.

Anyway, looks like a great deal may yet be resolved in the next episode - if nothing else, the final conflict over King's Landing.

Btw - anyone else notice how the opening animation has been changing with each episode? At the start of this one, the inside of Winterfell was shown as wrecked with no moving parts, and that reminded me that in the last episode the lighting in the crypts had gone out - but not in this episode's opening.

 

[Brian G Turner]

The show is definitely being a bit too carefree with the sacrificing of the dragons, but I suppose that's because they are forcing Daenerys to turn into the "Mad Queen" by killing her children and friends in the worst way possible.

Yep - which is why Tyrion wasn't killed, because that would split Dany's focus. Just killing M kept it all on her friend.

And, interestingly enough, does anyone see Dany as mirroring Cersei somewhat, in that their control and focus is on their children? I felt the show was suggesting that, hence why Cersei knows how to rile Dany into making stupid mistakes (which she did a lot of in the books before even setting sail for Westeros!).

I also agree with what was said before about the planning for Winterfell - rather than said their depleted armies south, why not send a small squad of assassins? I don't mean Arya, but definitely others. Bronn for a start.

Btw, looks like Jaime will be the one to kill Cersei, not Tyrion as the Valonqar.

A moment of confusion, though - in the books "The Three Heads of the Dragon" was an important phrase, but I'm wondering what it meant and how it applied now. I think we used to think it was Dany, Jon, and Tyrion riding a dragon together - but maybe the dragon is something to slay, and that it's three heads are Dany, Jon, and Cersei. Which means either all or two heads need to be removed. Just thinking aloud, but not more spoilers for *later* episodes, please.

 

[Brian G Turner]

PS - Regarding the vulnerability of dragons - in the books Euron has the dragonhorn which I believe can be used to bring down a dragon? In which case, in that version, I presume that - ballista or not - that's the weapon he ultimately uses to kill Dany's second dragon.

However, the horn has not been a feature of the TV series, and the ballista make for a better visual effect.

 

[Brian G Turner]

And thinking about the Direwolves - that is a bit odd, sending Ghost north. At the very beginning of the story the wolves were hugely symbolic to their characters - but that aspect seems to have disappeared in the TV show.

Ah, wait - the wolves are the connection to the House Stark, so by letting Ghost go, Jon is symbolically letting go of his house, as Arya also did by allowing Nymeria to go free (so why is Arya standing as a Stark?). The irony is, Sansa is now holding on to the ideal of rebuilding House Stark, yet her wolf, Lady, was the first to be killed (as ordered by Cersei in book 1).

 

[The Big Peat]

And thinking about the Direwolves - that is a bit odd, sending Ghost north. At the very beginning of the story the wolves were hugely symbolic to their characters - but that aspect seems to have disappeared in the TV show.

Ah, wait - the wolves are the connection to the House Stark, so by letting Ghost go, Jon is symbolically letting go of his house, as Arya also did by allowing Nymeria to go free (so why is Arya standing as a Stark?). The irony is, Sansa is now holding on to the ideal of rebuilding House Stark, yet her wolf, Lady, was the first to be killed (as ordered by Cersei in book 1).

The show creators talked a bit about thinking Ghost would be better in the north, that the south hasn't been kind to Direwolves... but also quite a lot about CGI burdens.

And not a lot about the whole symbolic aspects of direwolves and House Stark.

 

[L.L.Lotte]

And, interestingly enough, does anyone see Dany as mirroring Cersei somewhat, in that their control and focus is on their children? I felt the show was suggesting that, hence why Cersei knows how to rile Dany into making stupid mistakes (which she did a lot of in the books before even setting sail for Westeros!).

Yes. Making Daenerys comparable to Cersei was probably intentional.

As @The Big Peat said, I think the whole direwolf symbolism thing was kind of lost in the show - like a lot of other things from the books.

As for the rest... got so many responses to all that... but can't say anything without at least hinting at spoilers. Hope you aren't too disappointed.