Foundation on Apple TV

There are so many strings and so many things going on, on so many levels that it makes me want to yell: "Please tell one story at a time!!"
I rewatched it last night. The episode is brilliant, but it provokes so, so many questions. Like for example: is godmum some sort of vampire? Personally I think it's the best episode in the whole series and the thing about that, it's not handholding the audience. Instead, it's going full steam towards the swirl where all these threads end.
 
I was about to give up after the previous episode. Boring, slow and too often confusing.
With this episode, boring and slow went out of the window. I still am bit confused, though, but it could be I'm merely stunned.
 
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Way back in the day, I read Foundation. I like characters in my books, yet I found due to the sometimes rapid passage of time that characters I'd just gotten used to, disappeared. I'd read Asimov books before this one and kinda enjoyed them. You'd be hard-pressed to find a better world builder. But I like characters better than worlds. So that was it with me reading Asimov. Perhaps that is my loss but considering the comments raised here I'm beginning to have faith in my own concept of what I do, and do not, enjoy in a novel. Or a television series. This series has some fine points, but overall I find it to be a mishmash of concepts made at the expense of good, sound narrative. So ends the sermon. ;)
 
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We sat down with the series’ showrunner David Goyer recently to discover how…

“I think the secret to that, and it’s why I’m so excited about season two and why I think we’ve improved upon season one, is by making the themes as accessible and universal as humanly possible,” Goyer says. “It’s one thing to have grand ideas about the future of civilization, but it doesn’t matter if you don’t actually care about who lives and who dies.

“So something that we were very cognizant of when we were adapting the show was making sure that this would appeal to people who haven’t read Asimov, who don’t consider themselves to be fans of science fiction, just making sure that the characters are vivid and that we care about their fates.”

We know that Season Three is already in the works for Foundation, and with six Foundation novels from Asimov to play with, Goyer knows a way to stop the show from going too wayward or off pace – he writes the season endings first.

“It’s a trick that I picked up from James Cameron,” he nods. “He likes to come up with a really crazy idea and then write towards that. So I like to say to my fellow writers ‘what’s something that would seem to absolutely break the story?’ Something just wild like the dissolution of the genetic dynasty at the end of the first season. And we’ve done a few things like that at the end of season two of Foundation.”
 
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To be honest, sometimes it's hard to carry the enthusiasm. Like the one I had at the end of the last episode. It is almost like a high. You go so far and then it's over, and the emotion just disappears. You'll forget it until the next one comes along and restarts the process.

So let's see how this one turns, as the IMDB rating is unbelievably high, is it for real?
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"In long ago, but not far away," Cleon's digital ghost narrated. "A small and indulged prince lived in a big and ancient palace. His mother was a brilliant Empress, and his father ruled at her side. They did not know it yet... but they were the last of the Entun Dynasty."

"All the Empire adored the prince. He was given a name that meant famous. He was told not to wander too far, but his game drew him onward," Cleon continued. "He found himself in the hallway no one had entered into for thousands of years..."

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This one. It is different from last episode as it shows the android in the middle. What it doesn't show is Demerzel sliced in 8 pieces. All separated from each other by an air gap. But the android was not dead, as it was active in the display and as soon as young Cleon touched her, she asked, "Will you set me free?"

Then she offered stories, "Many Stories," to the young one. "The segmented woman in the hidden secret was the first secret, the prince ever kept from his parent," digital ghost narrated. "He came back often to hear her tell of the Empire's expansion, of the Robot Wars, of the whole planet called 'Earth.' She stayed the same, but, of course, the prince grew.

The android told the boy that Demerzel wasn't the first name she had in her 18 000 years long lifespan on the day when the Empress died. So the android told him about the time she'd been captured. Back then, she'd been a wartime leader. The only survivor of their genocide. Then she revealed that she was unique, maybe even capable of producing others.

For some reason, Cleon I got mad, and he stormed away from the chambers. "He came back, of course," digital ghost narrated. "Demerzel was his best secret and his only friend. And it no longer seemed right to leave her naked and in pieces."

But he didn't let the android free. Not fully, as she had to remain inside an electric gage. Like a doll to a man that looked like Day. A secret robot lover that had "been in gage for 5000 years." Cleon continued, "Demerzel's stories grew more explicit, tempting the prince to desire. She said he would free her someday, and he grew to believe it was true. She was right, of course, but it too many years."

Looking like Dusk he came back to the android and told her that he had no heir. The robot questioned him on the why, and the only answer was, "She wasn't you." As her liberator, Cleon I had searched the galaxy for the tools to give her freedom, and he'd put them in that box on Demerzel's table. He called it as "a betrothal gift," as it was precious enough for him to propose an union between man and the machine.

The Emperor put the gift from "Earth" on the table and release the android from her electronic prison as he suggested a solution for the Heir Problem. She could have killed Cleon, but she didn't. So Cleon gave her absolute freedom from Asimov's Laws, a free will to do whatever she wanted, and all he wanted for it was a kiss. Except the free will came with a clause, the robot could not harm 'the Empire,' (as a man).

"This is not freedom," the robot exhaled. Cleon explained that her liberty must be curbed before she could "stand next to the throne." All he wanted from her was loyalty, forever.

The robot declined as she knew humans couldn't live that long. They do not have, "forever." So Cleon I revealed the plan. She would have freedom to go wherever, even have sex with him in late night as long as she would remain "standing next to court as a special advisor." He explained that the clones would be their children, for her to "shape their choices," through "love." And through them, "rule the Imperium."

Cleon claimed that she was not a prisoner, because no ruler were any different. So the robot accepted the union, and "not long after the little prince died."

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"So, my brothers and I have been warming our thrones," Dusk said to the original Emperor, "With our useless Imperial asses while she is Empire?"

"But she has no power either," Rue suggested. "I mean she ahas all the power, except the power to do what she wants."

OG explained it as love. Triple amount of the good that should be enough for all of them. Dusk was pissed. He could not accept it. So he threatened the OG and the Ai locked them in the Demerzel's electronic prison to be forgotten forever.

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Star vampire ritual. I have to say this whole thing has been the least favourite piece in the series. As it was progressing, Warden infiltrated the setup and got back her rifle. Then she took out her stash of 'disks,' and started to set them ready. Gaal's eyes turning white, the Warden charged into the ritual chamber and threw one disk that completely distrusted the noise patterns and interrupted the telepaths from finishing the ritual.

Mum was still under the process when she dragged her aside. So Warden slapped her and that brought back Gaal. Then it was firefighting time. The girls escaped the temple and Warden brought Gaal to their launch site, to Beggar that they'd never moved.

Warden then ordered Gaal to take Radiant to Beggar. It wasn't too late as the illusionist ******* had breached the ship perimeter. Warden struggled to fight him as the geezer kept turning to her lover. So they ended brawling and rolling down hill uncontrollably. The illusionist stopped against a fallen tree trunk and broke his back, while Warden landed softly within reach of her rifle.

Inside the ship Tellum materialized her 'spirit' body and took the Radiant from Gaal as if she was a real Star Vampire. She conjured Vault and Gaal father. When she refused to reveal secrets, Tellum took Gaal to the future, where the Mule called her out.

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Using the opportunity, Gaal turned the table around. There was nothing that the Star Vampire could do as Gaal forced her to watch. Tellum didn't liked it so she decided to take Gaal out. It didn't go as planned as Warden's outside struggle caused her to fire on the ship and doing so Gaal got upper hand on the vampire.

Warden fought fiercely with the illusionist until she had one move left. She lured the b*stard inside the Beggar and trapped him inside the airlock. Then she ordered Ai to take out all the atmosphere. The illusionist died trying to be Warden's lover. As if it'd have worked. The only probelm she had left was the Star Vampire.

Tellum was about to force a knife in Gaal's chest, when she charged at her. Vampire cut Warden in process and then the real slayer appeared. It was the flesh and blood version of Hari, who spared no mercy as he battered the vampire to bulp, even if it wasn't her real body or was it?

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The Imperium gathering at Terminus. Foundation Director ordered his people to "enclosure," when the fleet came down through the cloud cover. Except the fleet was Commander's one and within in it, they were carrying Mr Mallow and Constant.

Bel Riose introduced himself as "the peer of Empire." Except the marks weren't for him to kill or so he claimed as he went down the path and asked about the Assault of Palace. "Why would an established cheat suddenly adopt a fatal fringe ideology?" Looking at Constant he deduced, "Is it love?"

"Absolutely," Hober answered. "But, also, maybe I'm finally buying into Seldon's BS. Yeah, I mean, Empire's light is dimming."

Before the Commander could finish the interrogation, Constant offered him a chance to go to see the spirit and then the whole opportunity was taken away as the Emperor came aboard. Day wanted to make a planet fall and hear Foundation terms, so that he could be called as Cleon who made peace. Both Demerzel and the Commander opposed the idea, but there was nothing they could do for the fool.

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On the ground, Day met with the Foundation director, without ever realizing that the ultimate decision wasn't his but the robot's. Day offered High Claric as a peace offering, and then he demanded to go to the "church as a pilgrim."

What could the Soulless Man possibly find in there? The only exception was that the place they went wasn't a temple, but a factory for the "miracles." When the director couldn't answer his questions, Day forced Claric to perform his stuff. So Claric took a cylinder and claimed that it could turn any iron to gold.

Not really believing, Day slapped him and ordered him to perform passionately. So the Director joined him in the performance as the High Claric went through procedure and turned Director's Iron pin to real gold. Day called it as a trick. Claric countered him with a tale from science.

Pissed Day kicked Claric and the priest stumbled against the box that spilled around 'personal aura's.' Day picked one up and claimed that only an emperor could wear one. So Day did the one thing he could, he claimed that their church was an armoury and their religion is a cult. Then he ordered Commander to take Invictus as they'd take the planet, before he stabbed the Director.

As the slaughter on the ground started to happen Invictus activated and started firing at Commander's Flag Ship. Commander order hubby to take fighters and fight back as on the ground Day set his eyes on the Vault. Against Demerzel's wishes.

Reaching the hill Day asked about the flags. Claric told him the truth, but the Emperor didn't believe him. He couldn't as in the next turn he stripped his aura and personal armour and then continued marching towards the Vault like an ignoramus.

Hari's Ai materialized outside, and Demerzel tried to stop the Prophet from inviting Day into his office. She could do nothing as the boy followed the Ai inside the Vault. So the Emperor went inside the machine Demerzel on his tow as a huge firefight erupted on orbit. Hubby took down Invictus but lost the control of his ship in the process.

As the news reached the Vault the Ai spoke to Demerzel and offered her apologies. Day simply was refusing to hear anything that sounded smart. He was stubborn as a mule. The Emperor ordered Commander to use Invictus to unleash hell on Terminus as he took Hari's gift, one of the Radiants.

At the orbit Day ordered Mr Mallow and Constant out from the prison and then as he proceeded towards the bridge Demerzel refused to follow him. She told it was his time, not hers as she was needed elsewhere. Not really understanding what was happening Day acted like pompous dictator. So the android told him to the truth that he was nothing but a result of sperm meeting an egg. A fleeting moment in a random motion that is complexity.

She left the ship as Day went to bridge and ordered Commander to fire on Invictus as the hubby called in and told the Commander to commit because of his love. He had no choice but to do as he was told and drive burning Invictus upon Foundation as the Emperor watched. The ship imploded on the surface, shattering the planet to Emperor's pleasure.
IMDB score: 9.4 Runtime: 60 minutes
 
Now I don't want to do a full review because it's too much work for no comments. But the conclusion is that this season has come to an end. One ending that changes it all, as it is a very fitting ending for two seasons of high sci-fi. Stuff that has been almost too hard to figure out, because the technology is so far out from the normality. Hence why I've kept calling it ultratechnology.

One of the pieces of it is the android, Demerzel. Nobody knows how old she is really and what part she played in the human evolution as it is clear that she came from Earth, and the solution for her problem is also there, expect nobody including her doesn't know where it is. Only the old emperor knew the secrets but he didn't pass the information to android when he started the whole cruel experiment that now has come to a conclusion of a whole generation of Emperor clones gone rogue and getting wiped out.

Day's dismissal was the one point I didn't want to talk about because it makes absolutely no sense on the way they switched bodies. Nevertheless, it left me with a satisfaction that the Imperium fleet got blown out by an epic hack. It really made me feel good to see them lit up around the broken planet and to know that the real Empress weren't going to be able to use it to force her will.

She's a cursed woman. The way they have portrayed her past was that whoever put her in the cell, did it for a reason, but the boy who found her got spelled by beauty and stories. By very clever manipulation of a boy, who should have known better. Maybe that is the flaw, the curse Demerzel is doomed to repeat as she decanted all three at the same time and put them through the same programming, before the show was advanced down the line 156 years.

But that was not the only hard to believe stuff, as Hari's rescue by Gaal dances on the edge. I find it super hard to believe that the girl was able to shield the StarVampire, GodMum from her thoughts and use the psychic powers to lay an illusion over Hari and the body he placed on his position.

I just couldn't believe it. Not willingly, because if they had left it unexplained, I might have filled the cap all on my own. To be honest, I did find the StarVampire and her use of the child body to hide her soul to be more believable than Hari's escape. Especially as it begs the question is Gaal really that powerful, when she wasn't even trained at the arts of psychic manipulation?

Because of it, Hari and Gaal are hypersleeping throughout the time to get inline with the Mule and even more desperate situation with the Imperium that is grumbling down due to erosion in the Genetic Dynasty line. All I can say that the lesson is the same, dictatorship is never good. It promises big for one individual, while the rest gets sh*t.

I don't know if I want to watch it further. Also I don't know how to really fix it either. Sorry.
IMDB score: 8.8 Runtime: 57 minutes
 
Now I don't want to do a full review because it's too much work for no comments. But the conclusion is that this season has come to an end. One ending that changes it all, as it is a very fitting ending for two seasons of high sci-fi. Stuff that has been almost too hard to figure out, because the technology is so far out from the normality. Hence why I've kept calling it ultratechnology.

One of the pieces of it is the android, Demerzel. Nobody knows how old she is really and what part she played in the human evolution as it is clear that she came from Earth, and the solution for her problem is also there, expect nobody including her doesn't know where it is. Only the old emperor knew the secrets but he didn't pass the information to android when he started the whole cruel experiment that now has come to a conclusion of a whole generation of Emperor clones gone rogue and getting wiped out.

Day's dismissal was the one point I didn't want to talk about because it makes absolutely no sense on the way they switched bodies. Nevertheless, it left me with a satisfaction that the Imperium fleet got blown out by an epic hack. It really made me feel good to see them lit up around the broken planet and to know that the real Empress weren't going to be able to use it to force her will.

She's a cursed woman. The way they have portrayed her past was that whoever put her in the cell, did it for a reason, but the boy who found her got spelled by beauty and stories. By very clever manipulation of a boy, who should have known better. Maybe that is the flaw, the curse Demerzel is doomed to repeat as she decanted all three at the same time and put them through the same programming, before the show was advanced down the line 156 years.

But that was not the only hard to believe stuff, as Hari's rescue by Gaal dances on the edge. I find it super hard to believe that the girl was able to shield the StarVampire, GodMum from her thoughts and use the psychic powers to lay an illusion over Hari and the body he placed on his position.

I just couldn't believe it. Not willingly, because if they had left it unexplained, I might have filled the cap all on my own. To be honest, I did find the StarVampire and her use of the child body to hide her soul to be more believable than Hari's escape. Especially as it begs the question is Gaal really that powerful, when she wasn't even trained at the arts of psychic manipulation?

Because of it, Hari and Gaal are hypersleeping throughout the time to get inline with the Mule and even more desperate situation with the Imperium that is grumbling down due to erosion in the Genetic Dynasty line. All I can say that the lesson is the same, dictatorship is never good. It promises big for one individual, while the rest gets sh*t.

I don't know if I want to watch it further. Also I don't know how to really fix it either. Sorry.
IMDB score: 8.8 Runtime: 57 minutes
Thank you for all your detailed reviews. I have read them after watching each episode and have been waiting for this last one before commenting.

There are times I've read the books before an adaptation to screen and have felt more immersed in the world because of it (LoTR, Expanse, Silo).
For shows that I come in as a newbie, I either get interested to search out the source material (Wheel of Time), or just let the adaptation speak for itself (The Witcher). The Foundation has me sitting on the fence. I can't help but think that the book is probably much better than the story I'm seeing on the screen. Either that, or I should read the book to get a better sense of what the TV series is about, even with its variations.
I like the premise, though much more during the first season than the second. I agree with many of the other comments, there is so much going on--big ideas get little screen time. They go by so quickly to allow the plot to proceed. That's why I like to read your recaps. It helped put it into perspective for me.
 
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Now I don't want to do a full review because it's too much work for no comments. But the conclusion is that this season has come to an end. One ending that changes it all, as it is a very fitting ending for two seasons of high sci-fi. Stuff that has been almost too hard to figure out, because the technology is so far out from the normality. Hence why I've kept calling it ultratechnology.

One of the pieces of it is the android, Demerzel. Nobody knows how old she is really and what part she played in the human evolution as it is clear that she came from Earth, and the solution for her problem is also there, expect nobody including her doesn't know where it is. Only the old emperor knew the secrets but he didn't pass the information to android when he started the whole cruel experiment that now has come to a conclusion of a whole generation of Emperor clones gone rogue and getting wiped out.

Day's dismissal was the one point I didn't want to talk about because it makes absolutely no sense on the way they switched bodies. Nevertheless, it left me with a satisfaction that the Imperium fleet got blown out by an epic hack. It really made me feel good to see them lit up around the broken planet and to know that the real Empress weren't going to be able to use it to force her will.

She's a cursed woman. The way they have portrayed her past was that whoever put her in the cell, did it for a reason, but the boy who found her got spelled by beauty and stories. By very clever manipulation of a boy, who should have known better. Maybe that is the flaw, the curse Demerzel is doomed to repeat as she decanted all three at the same time and put them through the same programming, before the show was advanced down the line 156 years.

But that was not the only hard to believe stuff, as Hari's rescue by Gaal dances on the edge. I find it super hard to believe that the girl was able to shield the StarVampire, GodMum from her thoughts and use the psychic powers to lay an illusion over Hari and the body he placed on his position.

I just couldn't believe it. Not willingly, because if they had left it unexplained, I might have filled the cap all on my own. To be honest, I did find the StarVampire and her use of the child body to hide her soul to be more believable than Hari's escape. Especially as it begs the question is Gaal really that powerful, when she wasn't even trained at the arts of psychic manipulation?

Because of it, Hari and Gaal are hypersleeping throughout the time to get inline with the Mule and even more desperate situation with the Imperium that is grumbling down due to erosion in the Genetic Dynasty line. All I can say that the lesson is the same, dictatorship is never good. It promises big for one individual, while the rest gets sh*t.

I don't know if I want to watch it further. Also I don't know how to really fix it either. Sorry.
IMDB score: 8.8 Runtime: 57 minutes
I agree with @elvet. I really appreciate your summaries and I read them all. If there is a season three (which I actually doubt) I hope you'll continue to enlighten us who only half understand what's going on.

I think we all agreed early in the series that although this series was set in the world of the Foundation books, it was not a retelling of the same story but a much different one. I, for one, am really disappointed that Harry Seldon continues to appear personally in this story. I say let "dead be dead." I certainly don't know how they would end the story (if they get the chance), even so I think if season 3 comes along I'll probably watch it too.
 
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I agree with @elvet. I really appreciate your summaries and I read them all. If there is a season three (which I actually doubt) I hope you'll continue to enlighten us who only half understand what's going on.

I think we all agreed early in the series that although this series was set in the world of the Foundation books, it was not a retelling of the same story but a much different one. I, for one, am really disappointed that Harry Seldon continues to appear personally in this story. I say let "dead be dead." I certainly don't know how they would end the story (if they get the chance), even so I think if season 3 comes along I'll probably watch it too.
So, would you recommend I read the book?
 
I loved the book when I read it. And I think you would too. Here and there it might feel a bit dated, but the story is a cracker jack, and it is most certainly one of the "foundational" SF stories. I would probably only recommend through the original trilogy "Foundation, Foundation and Empire, and Second Foundation." The follow on books are ok, but in my opinion not as seminal as the original three.
 
I watched the final two episodes tonight.
Would I watch a third season? Yes, I would, because - despite its many flaws - it is still a very interesting story combined with grand visuals. There's not much on offer in the same league, SF-wise. I'll take it for granted that much of the techno (psycho-history) goes over my head or that the narrative is sometimes beyond the make-believe realm. It remains entertaining, but it could have been much better imho.

I tried to read the books, not too many years ago. A DNF beyond book 1. Too dated and the narrative hardly engaging. In this case I don't think reading the books after seeing the TV-series will add much. But that's me. You can always give it a try.
 
I tried to read the books, not too many years ago. A DNF beyond book 1. Too dated and the narrative hardly engaging. In this case I don't think reading the books after seeing the TV-series will add much. But that's me. You can always give it a try.
I think you're right about this. I can see only the barest of connections between the books and this series.
 
Excellent finale. However like you @Parson, I felt there was far too much going on. It never felt like any of characters had enough time that their story deserved. Hats off to the actors though. Tremendous casting throughout.
 
I loved the book when I read it. And I think you would too. Here and there it might feel a bit dated, but the story is a cracker jack, and it is most certainly one of the "foundational" SF stories. I would probably only recommend through the original trilogy "Foundation, Foundation and Empire, and Second Foundation." The follow on books are ok, but in my opinion not as seminal as the original three.
The three books are themselves not originals! The 8 short stories are.
 
The three books are themselves not originals! The 8 short stories are.
I was not even aware that they were first a series of short stories. (I assume that they were part of a magazine series or something.)
 
I was not even aware that they were first a series of short stories. (I assume that they were part of a magazine series or something.)
All in Astounding. Published piecemeal - I think "Bridle and Saddle" was announced with "Foundation" but others were not, except the parts of the two serials.
There are 8 stories of sundry description, but 1 of them is in 2 instalments and 1 in 3 instalments. Note that these include information which is NOT in the books. Original illustrations - for some but not all, including front cover. Quotes from Ligurn Vier. Summaries at the start of instalments - and at the contents. Which also include information missing in main text. These Contents summaries are only in the two 1942 stories - the May one has key extra data, June one seems not to have extra information. From 1944, Contents are just title. The titles are all capitals in both contents and at the start of the story, so there does not seem to be official capitalization.

  1. Foundation. May 1942. Pages 38-53. (16 pages) Illustrated by M. Isip - 2 illustrations. In Contents, called "novelette".
  2. Bridle and Saddle. June 1942. Front cover and pages 9-30 (22 pages). Illustrated by Schneeman - 1+4 illustratons. Called "novelette".
  3. The Big and the Little. August 1944. Front cover and pages 7-54 (48 pages). Illustrated by Orban - 1+6 illustrations. Called "novelette".
  4. The Wedge. October 1944. Pages 64-79 (16 pages). Illustrated by Kramer - 3 illustrations. Called "short story".
  5. Dead Hand. April 1945. Front cover and pages 6-60 (55 pages). Illustrated by Orban - 1+5 illustrations. Called "novelette".
  6. The Mule. 2 instalments: November 1945. Front cover and pages 7-53, 139-144. Illustrated by Orban. December 1945. Pages 60-97, 148-168. Illustrated by Orban. Total 112 pages, 1+12 illustrations, called "serial"
  7. Now you see it. January 1948. Front cover and pages 7-61 (55 pages). Illustrated by Rogers - 1+5 illustrations. Called "novelette"
  8. ...And now you don´t. 3 instalments: November 1949. Front cover and pages 5-40. Illustrated by Rogers. December 1949. Pages 120-161. Illustrated by Rogers. January 1950. Pages 111-152. Illustrated by Rogers. Total 120 pages, 1+12 illustrations, called "serial".
 
I was not even aware that they were first a series of short stories. (I assume that they were part of a magazine series or something.)
Id like to see them do the three Galactic Empire prequel novels and maybe do an Elijah Bailey and R Daniel Olivar series .
 
Is getting season 3 and the Mule will be front and center.
 

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