Meeting a writing coach and feeling a bit disheartened

[Thiswriterinme]

I rather considered this to be the case too. However, to state the obvious/expound on what's pointed out here - their notion of what will sell is not always accurate. And in the case of someone who thinks you can't have magic in a Sci-Fi setting, v. dubious.

I agree with this. As restricted as the traditional publishing market can be, they don't always know when trends are going to change, or what will sell based on those trends. Some of the largest selling series were new and innovative for their time, completely destroying what was "known" about literature, fiction, and the market.

 

[MikeAnderson]

You should have told everybody in the group this woman secretly writes 50 Shades of Grey fan fictions after that "advice" she gave you!

 

[shamguy4]

I always thought the words outline and plot were interchangeable... I have a plot. I used an excel spreadsheet and each row represents another chapter or scene.
I tried to follow what Rowling did for HP with a spreadsheet.

Anyways the Facebook person who set me up with the bad coach has reached back out and has another coach lined up for me. She says this one is cheaper and she hopes it’s more in line with what I’m looking for…
I’m guessing I should just pass…

 

[Boneman]

I always thought the words outline and plot were interchangeable... I have a plot. I used an excel spreadsheet and each row represents another chapter or scene.
I tried to follow what Rowling did for HP with a spreadsheet.

Anyways the Facebook person who set me up with the bad coach has reached back out and has another coach lined up for me. She says this one is cheaper and she hopes it’s more in line with what I’m looking for…
I’m guessing I should just pass…

Definitely! 6 months here for free will see you way ahead of where this type of writing coach will take you. One year, two years, and you'll be so thankful you found us!

 

[The Judge]

Is this Facebook person a friend? Do you know anything about her at all?

It did occur to me that one reason the Facebook person contacted you was because you were lamenting on FB how long you've been writing yet you still haven't finished your book -- the kind of lament you've made here on Chrons a number of times in the past. In that case, it's very possible she genuinely wishes to help you. On the other hand, if you've not said anything of the kind, she may have ulterior motives. We simply don't know.

In any event, a writing coach could very well be a good move for you to make because, as I said before, the problem here seems to be a very simple one -- you don't appear to be actually writing, you're just forever plotting and planning and trying to think through every conceivable option. A good writing coach might be able to tease out the reason for this procrastination and put you on the road to getting the writing actually done, because whatever steps you're taking at present clearly aren't working.

Really, it's up to you what you decide to do -- nobody else can make the decision. There's only so much encouragement we can give, and we can tell you just to write and get the first draft finished until we're blue in the face, and although you agree that's what you have to do, unless and until you actually do it you simply aren't going to make progress. So if paying someone allows you to break whatever mental block is stopping you from writing, it might be worth it. On the other hand it might be throwing good money away if for whatever reason it doesn't get you writing -- whether because the coach is a charlatan, because she's well-meaning but ineffective, or because she's spot-on with her advice and help but you can't put it into action.

Meanwhile, while you're considering your options, take a carrot and stick approach to your writing. Make a note of how many words you've written to date -- not plotted on the graph but actually written in scenes/chapters. Aim to write a minimum of, say, 500 words every week and keep a tally. If you hit the target buy yourself a very small present, like a piece of cake for lunch, but if you miss the target you have to forgo a treat you'd planned or you have to undertake a household chore you've been putting off.

 

[Kerrybuchanan]

Hey, @shamguy4, I feel your pain. What TJ said above is great advice, and I'm going to add another suggestion. I recently joined a group called London Writers' Salon who hold hour-long writing sessions three times a day on every week day. They are scheduled at 0800 GMT, 0800 EDT and 0800 PDT (which works out as 0800, 1300 and 1600 GMT for me), and they're a great way to make yourself write for a set period of time. Very supportive, and you sort of feel accountable, seeing all those other heads down writing on the Zoom cameras! It's working really well for me.

Have a look here, London Writers' Salon and see what you think. Their sessions are free, but there is the option to pay a monthly fee for more resources. I'm too stingy to do that and find the free sessions are great without needing anything else.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Anyways the Facebook person who set me up with the bad coach has reached back out and has another coach lined up for me. She says this one is cheaper and she hopes it’s more in line with what I’m looking for…

Sounds like someone is getting a commission.

 

[Thiswriterinme]

I always thought the words outline and plot were interchangeable... I have a plot. I used an excel spreadsheet and each row represents another chapter or scene.
I tried to follow what Rowling did for HP with a spreadsheet.

Not to go way off topic here, but if you are looking for a great way to organize your plot, chapters, research, and even a first draft, there is this program called Scrivener, which is designed by writers for writers, as a fully functional novel, non-fiction book, and screenplay writing program. It is considerably inexpensive for a computer program, plus you can do a free trial to get a feel for it. I struggled with keeping everything organized while also keeping up with my writing until I finally got myself a writing program.

Since I got Scrivener in April of 2020, I've finished one 173k word novel, written over 5k words on one I started for NaNoWriMo (while simultaneously world building), and completed the world-building, outlines, and character profiles for two other novels that are already over 100k words each. There are several really great book writing programs out there that can help you keep everything in an easily accessible place, and make you more productive with plotting, outlining, and designing. I think there are a couple of open-source ones that are free too. Over the years I've encountered a lot of writers that can't say enough good things about Scrivener, and now I'm one of them. Just a thought that could help overall productivity with writing and outlining.

 

[msstice]

You can't give up now, man, you're 70% through!

Keep writing, finish the first draft, read it through, revise it, when you are proud of it, circulate it to some friends for a second opinion.

 

[shamguy4]

I do have scrivener! I use it like a wiki. There’s lots of lore and world building and some of it will probably never make it into my book.
I also have an excel spreadsheet which I use after dumping my brain out all over the place in scrivener. The excel page is more “canon”.

lol the person has now emailed and asked if I want to meet a new coach. I did some research this time. This new coach has published photography books... how the he’ll is that suppose to help me. I think I’m done with the coaching...

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I do have scrivener! I use it like a wiki. There’s lots of lore and world building and some of it will probably never make it into my book.
I also have an excel spreadsheet which I use after dumping my brain out all over the place in scrivener. The excel page is more “canon”.

lol the person has now emailed and asked if I want to meet a new coach. I did some research this time. This new coach has published photography books... how the he’ll is that suppose to help me. I think I’m done with the coaching...

Don’t give up on coaching neccesarily. It can be a good tool. I’m a writing coach (I don’t charge the sort of fees seen here!) and it can be very effective, I think the Judge’s post above is mostly spot on. If there is something in the way of you writing, they might be able to help you. But you have to want to be helped, and to work towards goals set - or expect to be asked why not and encouraged to explore the block.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

@The EndIsNigh

I see through your transparent attempt to sell us windows.

Actually Windows can be very useful. Have you considered revamping your house with new durable maintenance free software?

Being relatively new to the site you're probably unaware of my real sales pitch which is for Chron addicted members and the need for comfortable chairs.
They have in built commode features soft upholstery and most important of all intravenous bag stands. They also meet the specification of ambulance beds for easy extraction in case of medical emergency due to malnutrition etc.

They are very resonably priced and catalogues are available. Any resemblance to the "chairs" and the recent theft of hospital beds is purely coincidental.

So...

1. Dark room - small hours - word processor (or pen and paper !!!)
2. Partner (friend) "Here what do you think of this?"
3. Chrons
4. Writing challenges
5. Critiques (doesn't have to be your big project - just something you think is good - short story etc.)
6. Writing group - visit the Chrons less often
7. Finish the book
8 goto 2

Or if short stories send them off to people for publication and note any feed back.

I recently paid for a "critique" of a short story of mine which was having good feedback but not being published.

It was 5000 words and the critique helped to point out the things I was denyiong to myself and gave me pointers on how to improve it. Something I was racking my brain to see.

It cost less than £30 andI found it very useful but that is an extremely desperate way to go.

$350 per session is way over the top IMO

 

[Ogma]

They have in built commode features soft upholstery and most important of all intravenous bag stands. They also meet the specification of ambulance beds for easy extraction in case of medical emergency due to malnutrition etc.

If they walked the dog and cut the grass, I might be interested.

 

[Toby Frost]

Ok, totally unsolicited and probably incomplete advice on getting a book written.

1) Get into a situation where you can comfortably spend a fair chunk of time (2 hours, maybe) writing. Disconnect all social media. Compared to other forms of entertainment, this may feel like hard work.
2) Controversial perhaps, but stop world-building. Time spent world-building is time not spent writing the story. Also, readers will not find the setting as interesting as you do.
3) Accept that the first draft is probably going to seem like awkward rubbish to you. The aim is just to get the words down.
4) Get used to thinking about what happens right now in the story and in the next scene, not at the end of a huge plot arc. How is this particular scene interesting? Imagine the story as a 1st person shooter (Doom) or a 3rd person action game (Tomb Raider), depending on whether you're writing from 1st or 3rd person. Zoom in and say what that person is doing right now. As soon as they get boring, switch to someone else (if possible) or describe the intervening events very shortly ("The journey took two hours"). They can be fleshed out later if necessary.

General point, not necessarily directed at the OP: Story matters. ASOIF might as well be called "Who will survive?" What happens next is the main driver in reading much fiction, especially stuff that doesn't try to be "literary". Story requires strong individual characters doing interesting things (and usually in an active, decisive way).

 

[.matthew.]

2) Controversial perhaps, but stop world-building. Time spent world-building is time not spent writing the story. Also, readers will not find the setting as interesting as you do.

I'd agree with this with one caveat. Make sure you have consistent rules for how your world works.

By this I mean it's safe to ignore the history, culture, and complexity of your world - so long as it wouldn't impact the story - but make sure you know how things work. I've recently been reading a series by a well-known author and have been getting increasingly frustrated (agitated more like) that they continue to retcon their own world for the sake of adding something cool later down the line.

 

[Toby Frost]

Yes, I agree. I think unless you're describing something deeply different - new laws of physics, or strongly-established rules of society that prevent people behaving as we'd expect them to - you can expect readers to work out how things work pretty quickly. I was thinking of those stories where a writer creates a huge fictional history for a fantasy kingdom or a galactic federation, and the reader quickly realises that, basically, it's medieval Europe with magic/ the USA in space. It's got to make logical sense to the reader.

 

[M. Robert Gibson]

I set out to write a book that I would want to read

I wonder if you lost sight of this and started trying to write something that someone else would want to read and this has caused the blockage

---
And that concludes today's episode of Amateur Psychology Hour

 

[shamguy4]

The one piece of advice the coach did give me somewhere in the middle of the negativity was that it might actually be helpful is to write my last seen out. Well I know my ending but I’ve never written it out. Maybe writing it out would help me see more clearly what I want to happen and I fix any discrepancies.
I might try this.

 

[Karn's Return]

Never feel bad about your craft. Be honest with yourself about it, yes, but never feel bad. Work that does not live up to one's standards of quality is not relegated solely to the arts; it happens all the time, even in the most practical situations.


But the point is, be prepared to sacrifice a lot of work that does not meet your needs, because it's a process, both learning and performance. Practice is never worthless. Keep that in mind.


And finally, the term labor of love exists for a reason. It's a passion that produces the best writing, the very best you can be, so you can have pride in yourself, even if that's all that shall ever come of your words, it's a lot. Trust me. You don't want to live a life where you can't be proud of your own self accomplishments. So don't feel disheartened, feel encouraged, and learn from any and all experiences life will throw at you, because that's what it's for.

 

[Karn's Return]

And also just to input...each one of you sort of honestly gives me hope. The fact that the way the world is now...what happened this whole entire year...and my own personal troubles...the fact that there are still those of you who are passionate about words to paper. Perhaps our industry isn't quite yet dead, huh? Well...honestly I don't really know if I can technically yet rate amongst the likes of you all, but...maybe someday. Point being, do not ever give up on what you care for, no matter who the hell says or doesn't say about it. And don't ever take criticisms too hard to heart, honestly, though I must admit I fall short on this one. If you are satisfied with a product, then you did it. You set your bar, not some coach, not some agent, nor editor, publisher, any of it. (The beauty of self-publishing, though perhaps this power is a bit abused...)

Also, always try to improve. Keep an eye for mistakes and weaknesses, holes and contradictions. Don't stagnate.