Cultural infantilism. Escapism as abdication

I don't think we should confuse escapism and infantilism. Though they may overlap at times, they are not at all the same thing. For instance, in the case of an authoritarian government (or religion, or any other authoritarian institution) they would no doubt love to infantilize their citizens or followers, to the extent that they look up to their leaders as the wise all-knowing parents who will always tell them the truth, so that they need only to follow what they are told and do no thinking for themselves. Stories and mythologies might grow up around thosee leaders that have the flavor of escapist literature, but the similarities will only be superficial. The heroic roles will always belong to the leaders. Whereas in fantasy and science fiction and adventure stories of all sorts, it is the individual who grows into heroism ... or occasionally doesn't, but even then the story is really about people rather than institutions. As a rule, I think that authoritarians would not like the vast bulk of "escapist" literature because it teaches the reader to think, "Well, things could be different. They don't have to be the way they are."

I agree. If I remember rightly, Orwell says somewhere that a dictatorship cannot have good comedians, because good comedians make people think rebellious thoughts.

One of the reasons that dictators and aspiring dictators (naming no names) are so dangerous is that they feed people a simple, infantilised lie: we are the good guys, they are the bad guys (I always think that soldiers and police sound like idiots when they talk about the "bad guys") and you just have to put me in charge and I'll get rid of them for you... It's a lot easier to understand than the truth, and works like a dream on desperate and stupid people.

I'm British, and I'm shocked by the number of older people who were brought up on a constant diet of Where Eagles Dare* and Commando comics, and who actually seem to wish that they'd got to have a go at the Jerries just like we did in the good old days. Compare that to kids enjoying modern SFF and tell me that SFF infantilises people.

*In fairness, I enjoyed this film, but I don't think it's an accurate portrayal of WW2.
 
One of the reasons that dictators and aspiring dictators (naming no names) are so dangerous is that they feed people a simple, infantilised lie: we are the good guys, they are the bad guys (I always think that soldiers and police sound like idiots when they talk about the "bad guys") and you just have to put me in charge and I'll get rid of them for you... It's a lot easier to understand than the truth, and works like a dream on desperate and stupid people.

I would submit that it's less lie, and more sugarcoating of a different form of morality, where good and bad are less fixed things of altruism and selfishness and more simply a case of who helps us/the tribe is good and that which opposes is bad, something that reaches its apogee in the soldier's case where nobody pointing a weapon at them for the duration of the encounter can be anything other than bad.

And that, what's more, many of the people who buy it know full well that's what they're buying and do so because it's their world view too.
 
The same kind of thinking behind brand loyalty and some advertising - whacko teeth whitener will transform your social life it is the one magic bullet that you need.

At least in fantasy, everyone knows that magic wands are fiction (well, I hope they know that....unless of course there is the odd real one out there...:) )
 
I think a lot of it has to do with peer pressure and expectation, and quite often that is driven by consumerism and advertising. Adults may read kid's books, but then who's going to buy all the adult books? But I think that there's a realisation (or perhaps to some extent) desperation to get anyone to buy any kind of book, considering how much competition there is from other forms of media. And I wonder how many adults bought a Harry Potter or similar easy-to-read book, who otherwise would not have bought a book at all?
 
I don't think we should confuse escapism and infantilism. Though they may overlap at times, they are not at all the same thing.

Agree.

For instance, in the case of an authoritarian government (or religion, or any other authoritarian institution) they would no doubt love to infantilize their citizens or followers, to the extent that they look up to their leaders as the wise all-knowing parents who will always tell them the truth, so that they need only to follow what they are told and do no thinking for themselves.

Interestingly, the opposite turns out to be the case in most Authoritarian regimes - mainly because they tend to see everything through a totalising lens, so every aspect of society is in service of the regime. They don't want divergent thought, but they also don't want infants.

In China, for example, manga and anime - perceived to be infantile in China - are very much frowned on by the CPC, so much so that they are in the basket of goods that can penalise your social credit score if you buy them, or share them on social media.

China is going out of its way to fund and promote hypermasculinity through state funded movies which is, in part, a reaction to the idea that Chinese men have become effeminate, and partly as preparation for war. There was a spate of videos going round of an MMA fighter challenging tai-chi masters to fights and exposing them as fakes. The guy was "silenced" by the CPC who regarded this as a national embarrassment.

Chinese media, save literature, tends to be much less sophisticated than, say, Korea or the USA. Chinese audiences are also much less sophisticated in their tastes.

I think Nazi Germany was very much of the mind to promote outdoor activities and discourage escapist activities which were thought to be decadent.

Soviet literature was heavily scrutinized by state censors, so I think they were hot on the socially transformative potential of literature, and so required authors to adhere to party lines which were to direct the development of their minds. This wasn't towards an infantile state, but towards unquestioning obedience.

Soviet policies on the role of literature as raising revolutionary consciousness were highly influential on China's league of left wing writers:

League of Left-Wing Writers - Wikipedia

Mao in his talks at Yan'an builds on Lenin's concept of the unity of art and politics by setting out how he saw the role of art and literature:
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-3/mswv3_08.htm

Overall, I think Huxley's prediction of a future obsessed with sensation, spectacle and triviality is more accurate of the worst aspects of liberal societies. I think Chomsky elaborated on that in Manufacturing Consent.

Also, most fantasy and science fiction is about the challenges of individual responsibility. Not just doing what you are told, or letting other people do all the doing, but making up your own mind and then shouldering what needs to be done.

I think this is true of western sci-fi and fantasy - I'm not sure this is true of Eastern. Things like the wu xia novels of Jin Rong are fantasy novels set in Chinese antiquity so tend to focus on social responsibility, fighting greedy barbarians and so on. I think the Chinese model of a hero achieves his skills not from being feted or godlike but from their humility, a great teacher and perseverance (Monkey King, aside).

What I find worrying is that things like 'flagship' science programmes like Horizon seem to be aimed at nine year olds with short attention spans and everything, but everything now has to be turned into a competition with ADHD cutting. The days when AP Taylor could talk for half an hour, direct to camera, giving a history lecture (without notes) and get massive ratings is way past. Don't get me wrong - I think Horrible Histories is fun. I have learned stuff. But when that's ALL that's on the menu...

Really agree with this. The quality of educational programming has really floundered. I really love the 70'a John Berger's BBC series "Ways of Seeing" which uses Walter Benjamin's "Art in the age of Mechanical reproduction" as a basis.

Overall though, I think there is a strange contradiction. Media is becoming more childish - from the way people behave on social media, to how people discuss issues. The kinds of topics and the presentation has also become more childish. The affectation of people more narcissistic. The overall tone of culture is infantile and the average of people invested in franchises created to sell toys, and leaving home and engaging in adult stuff is older.

It's fascinating to watch interviews from the 60's and 70's and see how the quality of discourse has plummeted. Whatever you think of William F Buckley's politics, his interviews with Noam Chomsky or Groucho Marx - the way people comport themselves, the standards of questions asked is far more revealing than the kinds of interviews we get today.

You could call sci-fi of the 50's and 60's escapist, sure, but I don't think it's on the whole, infantile.

But then, we have media today that is far more technically sophisticated than media from the same time period. The sopranos, The Wire, Better call Saul, etc - even superhero shows like Legion have a level of sophistication in writing, characterisation, filming and acting we never saw decades earlier except in, maybe, the best cinema.
 
But wouldn't you agree that unquestioning obedience is childish and hyper-masculinity (as opposed to what comes naturally to the individual) is at best sort of adolescent? In neither case do these encourage maturity.

Fantasy and science fiction include so many, many coming-of-age tales, the speculative fiction genre as a whole does seem to give a lot of attention to what maturity is and how we might go about achieving it. (I don't say that it's not sometimes treated in a rote and superficial way, because sometimes it is, but the trend of SFF is to value the emerging adult who thinks about their role in the world and takes on increasing responsibility.)
 
At least in fantasy, everyone knows that magic wands are fiction (well, I hope they know that....unless of course there is the odd real one out there...:) )

I've discovered (from reading Harry Potter et l'order du Phenix), that, in French, magic wands are 'bagettes magiques'. Which does make them even sillier.
 
But wouldn't you agree that unquestioning obedience is childish and hyper-masculinity (as opposed to what comes naturally to the individual) is at best sort of adolescent? In neither case do these encourage maturity.

I'm not sure obedience is childish. There's plenty of pragmatic situations where being able to take command without question can be life or death. In the military, rescue missions, surgery etc.. If anything, children tend to be questioning and disobedient whereas deferring gratification, self sacrifice and discipline are hallmarks of maturity.

Authoritarians don't discourage self reliance - they want their soldiers to be the strongest warriors, but they want their self reliance to be in service to the state, as opposed to the individual. I don't think Authoritarian states are the same as Nanny states, though. The latter seem overly concerned with your welfare whereas the former only really care about the health of the state, and individual losses are irrelevant.

I don't personally think unquestioning obedience is a good thing, though!

Re: Hypermasculinity. It can be adolescent, for sure -Bro culture, for example. But in the CPC's case the attributes they want to emphasise are reproductive virility, due to the demographic crisis in China; physical strength and martial skill, because they want to project military might; loyalty to the motherland, bravery and self-sacrifice; which are all adult qualities.

Their hypermasculine avatars are of the wolf warrior type (named after Wu Jing's Rambo-esque films of the same name) - brave, physically strong and adept military characters engaging in violence against brutal outsiders to protect innocents.
 
Military efficiency is surely different to the kind of complete and mindless devotion required by a dictator. After all, soldiers have disobeyed illegal orders in the past, and democracies have produced very skilled soldiers without brainwashing them.

I think the obedience of a minion in a tyranny is childish, because a grown-up (as in an adult with a free and functional mind, not a two-dimensional macho man) has free thought and can question the world around him, while a dictator's minion just does what the parent/leader tells him. In return for his submissive obedience, he gets a world-view that is comfortingly simplistic: leader/daddy/Big Brother good, outsiders bad. One of the historians I studied for A-level said that Hitler wanted "heroic robots". "You no love Leader? You bad! Me love leader! Me good! Me smash!"
 
Last edited:
On the subject of self-reliance and good warriors, the Elizabethan state was facing the same problem. What they noticed was their best bowmen were yeomen - so had I think it was about 8 acres of land, were nearly self-sufficient and were generally well fed and fit - and used to being self-reliant. (This comes from the Working Lives of Women by Alice Clark). So what the state did was pass laws to prevent rural houses being built with smaller patches of land, which wouldn't fully support the families living there. (There was a history of poor people building little shelters and tiny cottages on scraps of land and then struggling.) The laws didn't work. There was also another side effect of the nearly self-sufficient yeomen - they would work for larger farmers at ploughing and harvest time when the wages were higher, but not the rest of the year - and there were ongoing complaints from larger landowners about not being able to get the staff......

Demographic crisis - the whole economies must always grow, ditto populations to help them grow, will eventually hit a wall of "no room left". I like the Japanese model where they are developing care robots to help the elderly, rather than wanting to have more kids so they have a workforce to look after the elderly - because the latter version means you've always got lots of elderly needing a new generation of youngster to care for them.
 
A thread which becomes a discussion of definitions is a sure sign that the original article did not define its terms. And if the original article did not define its terms, then it could not, by definition, have actually said anything. And so it did not. Implied, maybe, danced around, but never actually formulated and communicated any new information.

The real question is, who wants to tackle a definitive definition (is that redundant?) of adulthood? Because that's what ultimately matters, here. The true definition of adulthood is the answer to all of this.
 
Adulthood (for me at least) means taking responsibility for your own actions and putting the good of others before yourself. It means giving more than you get - and enjoying it. It means realising the entire world does not revolve around you and, in the general scheme of things, you don't really matter but you might as well enjoy it while you're here. (And help as many others as you can enjoy their time here too.) It's realising that in less that 200 years no one will remember you at all - or anyone you ever meet - or even know you existed.
 
Military efficiency is surely different to the kind of complete and mindless devotion required by a dictator. After all, soldiers have disobeyed illegal orders in the past, and democracies have produced very skilled soldiers without brainwashing them.

I think the obedience of a minion in a tyranny is childish, because a grown-up (as in an adult with a free and functional mind, not a two-dimensional macho man) has free thought and can question the world around him, while a dictator's minion just does what the parent/leader tells him. In return for his submissive obedience, he gets a world-view that is comfortingly simplistic: leader/daddy/Big Brother good, outsiders bad. One of the historians I studied for A-level said that Hitler wanted "heroic robots". "You no love Leader? You bad! Me love leader! Me good! Me smash!"

Maybe mindless obedience isn't quite correct, then. Maybe unwavering loyalty is. I think they would probably want soldiers that questioned command if they thought command was disloyal to China / Xi Jinping etc. Unwavering loyalty might mean that even though you are unsure about your orders, you have sufficient trust in command to carry them out nevertheless, unless they violate that loyalty - like a coup attempt or something?

Li Wenliang, who was the guy who first broke Coronavirus, was hushed up by the local bureau who tried to suppress his posts, then died and was recently declared a martyr by the CPC.

I don't think any dictator be it Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot want soldiers that are dumb or generals that are strategically stupid. They want soldiers that will sacrifice themselves for the cause, strong warriors who can fight smart, but won't ever dream of turning on the "dear leader".

It is true, though, that dictators don't like intellectuals who challenge their power - hence pretty much every dictator's rise followed by a massacre of non-sciencey intellectuals who are not engrossed into the party network.

Demographic crisis - the whole economies must always grow, ditto populations to help them grow, will eventually hit a wall of "no room left". I like the Japanese model where they are developing care robots to help the elderly, rather than wanting to have more kids so they have a workforce to look after the elderly - because the latter version means you've always got lots of elderly needing a new generation of youngster to care for them.

The problem with that is the upfront expenditure to build, maintain and develop robots. Care, particularly of the elderly, is a non productive industry. It doesn't "create value", from the brutal, monstrous perspective of an economist, but is a drain.

One thing that never gets talked about in British politics is the sheer size of the welfare bill for state pensions which vastly dwarfs other kinds of welfare. 50 x unemployment benefits. All the fuss made over unemployment benefits when it occupies the tiniest portion.

Being as state pensions are actually paid out of the current tax take and not from a pool of invested fund like a personal pension, you need active tax payers to shoulder that burden (along with bonds and borrowing). With an aging population, you would need to reduce the state pension or increase tax revenue to even maintain it at the current paltry level.

Then you have issues around who is going to defend the land, maintain housing for the elderly, grow food, maintain sanitation, produce materials, feed them etc. etc. You would potentially need a huge deployment of technology to build the infrastructure to support elderly care - at which point we probably have to worry more about the robocalypse.

A thread which becomes a discussion of definitions is a sure sign that the original article did not define its terms. And if the original article did not define its terms, then it could not, by definition, have actually said anything. And so it did not. Implied, maybe, danced around, but never actually formulated and communicated any new information.

The real question is, who wants to tackle a definitive definition (is that redundant?) of adulthood? Because that's what ultimately matters, here. The true definition of adulthood is the answer to all of this.

Adulthood is kind of synthetic in that, I don't know about you, but, even in my mid 40's, I don't feel "grown up".

Having said that, I think adulthood entails qualities that children and adolescents don't naturally possess - the ability to defer gratification, make mature decisions, control your emotions, co-operate with others for a mutual cause, sustain themselves, put others before themselves, shoulder responsibility, a modicum of wisdom, a sense of perspective and an appreciation of a kind of complexity in human relations (i.e. not being a mean girl / jock bully / seeing how someone's negative aspects may be as a result of upbringing and not an essential part of their character etc.). I don't think all adults possess these qualities, though!
 
welfare bill for state pensions which vastly dwarfs other kinds of welfare
Speaking as someone who is not yet receiving a state pension., and without wanting to descend into the sort of discussion we don't like here...

In the UK, state pensions are not welfare. While state pensions are, like just about any government expenditure, financed out of current taxation and borrowing (to be paid out of future taxation), the state pension is a (theoretically) pre-funded payment: one only** gets it if one has contributed (via National Insurance), and one's payment is based on how long*** one has contributed to National Insurance. That these paid-in sums were spent on previous generations' pensions is neither here nor there: pensioners have already paid in and are (again, in theory) getting their money back (as with a private pension).

Of course, if one has a very low, or no, income when one is of pensionable age, but hasn't paid enough NI (or any), then one does get money through what we now call "welfare".


** - Spouses of deceased pensions get (or they used to) a "widow's pension", a percentage of what the deceased had received. (I have no idea if this could also be paid to widowers.)

*** - One's NI contributions are based (to some extent, and probably more so than when I first started paying them) on one's income. There is also an element of the state pension that is directly based on what one might have contributed (which used to be called SERPS, a couple of decades ago).
 
Speaking as someone who is not yet receiving a state pension., and without wanting to descend into the sort of discussion we don't like here...

In the UK, state pensions are not welfare. While state pensions are, like just about any government expenditure, financed out of current taxation and borrowing (to be paid out of future taxation), the state pension is a (theoretically) pre-funded payment: one only** gets it if one has contributed (via National Insurance), and one's payment is based on how long*** one has contributed to National Insurance. That these paid-in sums were spent on previous generations' pensions is neither here nor there: pensioners have already paid in and are (again, in theory) getting their money back (as with a private pension).

Of course, if one has a very low, or no, income when one is of pensionable age, but hasn't paid enough NI (or any), then one does get money through what we now call "welfare".

Just to clarify I'm not knocking welfare, or making any statement about it's merits or lack of etc. wasn't trying to open up that can of worms!

When I say welfare, I mean state pensions come under the welfare budget (see link attached from ONS). The way UK state pensions work in practice, NI Conts are a tax that makes you eligible for a state pension paid for out of current tax revenue. Additionally, you have no rights to any kind of fund equivalent to the conts paid and no entitlement to transfer any money out of the UK to a personal pension provider or as a commuted lump sum or anything like that.

The broader point was that, in order for state pensions to be paid at all, you need a high level of tax income. With an aging population, the burden on tax payers would be increased in nations that have state pension provision, unless they have a sovereign wealth fund like Norway.
 
Regarding delayed gratification, children can display that. There is a book I read on Emotional Intelligence (EQ rather than IQ) and they found that the children who were capable of delaying gratification tended to have a better life path - and that how well your life went was more dependent on EQ than IQ. Very interesting on all the experiments.
I think it was the one by Daniel Goleman, but I'm not quite sure. It was all about the behavioural experiments carried out.
 

Back
Top