Cultural infantilism. Escapism as abdication

[Ursa major]

Just to clarify I'm not knocking welfare

I'm not saying you are knocking welfare (I'm not sure where you got that idea); I'm saying that you are identifying something as welfare for which individuals have already paid when it is not... and that governments may -- or may not (as the mood takes them) -- call pre-paid pensions "welfare", to falsely make themselves look munificent**, is neither here not there.

When I have paid for something, particularly long in advance, I am not getting it out of kindness, or a sense of obligation, but because I have already bought it.



** - It's bad enough when they do this in relation to other expenditure -- they're not giving out their own money -- but when they are giving people their own money back, they really should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Mon0Zer0]

I'm not saying you are knocking welfare (I'm not sure where you got that idea); I'm saying that you are identifying something as welfare for which individuals have already paid when it is not... and that governments may -- or may not (as the mood takes them) -- call pre-paid pensions "welfare", to falsely make themselves look munificent**, is neither here not there.

Apologies - I thought maybe you thought I was trying to bring up the contentious topic of welfare itself. Misunderstood you.

I don't think it's really about the government looking munificent, so much as state pensions operate exactly like welfare so much as to be welfare, albeit welfare that you pay for access to.

When I have paid for something, particularly long in advance, I am not getting it out of kindness, or a sense of obligation, but because I have already bought it.

At any time the government can (and has) changed the terms of state pension, regardless of what terms you were paying for access in all the years prior to the change - this however cannot be done with a personal or employer's pension without first weighing up whether there are likely to be any material losses to members (such as the tax free lump sum change to 25% of fund post 01/04.2006, or equalisation in the nineties).

On the positive side (for pensioners), being as pensioners are more likely to vote, this can lead to generous rates of increase far above the usual max of 5% for private pensions. I think the figure of 8% was mooted for next increase.

** - It's bad enough when they do this in relation to other expenditure -- they're not giving out their own money -- but when they are giving people their own money back, they really should be ashamed of themselves.

Agreed.

 

[Astro Pen]

Just to mention that shortly after my OP I did write to the mods, realising that there was a potential for the topic to subvert into the political arena and to lock or remove it as appropriate with my full approval should that happen

 

[W Collier]

In service to the original topic: Whether or not physically mature specimens demonstrate the qualities of adulthood, and whether or not some precious juveniles display such characteristics ahead of schedule, adulthood is what it is. Understanding adulthood, grasping its definition, answers the whole OP question. Escapism is infantilizing and does represent an abdication of responsibility to the extent that for the consumer it encourages or is a means of turning away from those critical adult qualities of being. That's all.

It may be that the real problem is how few adults demonstrate adulthood to begin with, before and irrespective of the influence of media. With so few adults in the room already, maybe it is incumbent upon artists not just to be wary of infantilizing the audience but to actively encourage and foster adulthood whenever possible, lest we end up with no adults at all. But then, the qualities of adulthood are least prevalent among artists, so that's a vain hope.

 

[Mon0Zer0]

Escapism is infantilizing and does represent an abdication of responsibility to the extent that for the consumer it encourages or is a means of turning away from those critical adult qualities of being. That's all.

I don't agree escapism is always infantilizing. Any diversion can be escapism. There's nothing wrong with escaping, so long as you adequately fulfil your responsibilities.

 

[Toby Frost]

I agree. I also wonder what "escapism" is: is an Agatha Christie story, which is purportedly set in the real world, less escapist than Alien, which clearly isn't? And does it matter? 1984 is set in the future, about imaginary people and full of made-up words, and is hardly a wild flight of fancy.

the qualities of adulthood are least prevalent among artists

Sorry, I've completely lost you here.

 

[HareBrain]

Whether or not physically mature specimens demonstrate the qualities of adulthood, and whether or not some precious juveniles display such characteristics ahead of schedule, adulthood is what it is.

Beyond physical or legal maturity, there is no watertight definition of adulthood. As a society and culture, we might generally agree that someone who blows an inheritance on action figures and then complains when he can't afford to eat is not displaying adult behaviour, but as we get away from ludicrous extremes, things become much more contestable. If your definition of adult behaviour includes "does not indulge in escapism" then lo and behold, people who indulge in escapism cannot be defined as adults.

 

[AllanR]

Funny how blowing money on on thing and not another would mark one as infantile. If it was stocks, or cocaine or.... a different social judgment would occur.

blows an inheritance on action figures and then complains when he can't afford to eat is not displaying adult behaviour,

 

[Danny McG]

I'm British, and I'm shocked by the number of older people who were brought up on a constant diet of Where Eagles Dare* and Commando comics, and who actually seem to wish that they'd got to have a go at the Jerries just like we did in the good old days

Yeah, now you're talking, let's all get stuck into Fritz!

 

[Ursa major]

Let's all get stuck into Fritz

Starting with Metropolis!

 

[tinkerdan]

I'm all for escapism in reading; read my share. Enjoy those quotes @Ambrose @AllanR @Teresa Edgerton; however I would caution that as with many other things there is an element in some escapism that borders on objectification of individuals. Like any other type of propaganda when you tell an untruth or half truth long enough it can become adopted as the truth by many and some of that objectification can fall in that area and the reader needs to be aware of the possibility that they might accidentally begin to propagate the same by innocent active participation.

There is quite a gap between reading the subject matter and actually acting it out in public. I think that's where the creepy part can set in.

 

[wearywanderer64]

The night shift where I worked read all the Harry Potter books. They loved them. And they were smart people - practically every one had a degree. I once found Gulliver's Travels in the children's section of the library. It has more depth than you can imagine, assuming you know the history of the time it was written. And by the way. A lot of what's termed literature is considered really boring. Are you reading for the story or the floral language? Is so-and-so humorous or does the humour only succeed because other (rich/middle class) people can identify with the situation? (I find stcoms the same.)

Good literature, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[JunkMonkey]

I once found Gulliver's Travels in the children's section of the library.

The original as written by Dean Swift, or a bowdlerised retelling?

 

[wearywanderer64]

The original as written by Dean Swift, or a bowdlerised retelling?

I think it was original( ish) as in it was not written in olde English.

 

[Mon0Zer0]

The night shift where I worked read all the Harry Potter books. They loved them. And they were smart people - practically every one had a degree. I once found Gulliver's Travels in the children's section of the library. It has more depth than you can imagine, assuming you know the history of the time it was written. And by the way. A lot of what's termed literature is considered really boring. Are you reading for the story or the floral language? Is so-and-so humorous or does the humour only succeed because other (rich/middle class) people can identify with the situation? (I find stcoms the same.)

Good literature, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

I don't read literature just because I can identify with the situation. Quite the reverse, I read a lot of horror or sci-fi or fantasy or whatever because it gives me new perspectives or ideas or just because it takes me, safely, into a new realm of experience.

There seems to be a trend amongst the under 30's, to want to see yourself in the media you consume - and that if you're not there on the screen or the page it's minimising your existence, in some way. I don't fully understand that.

 

[Robert Zwilling]

Reading can be done by anyone at any age and any state of development. I'm sure there eventually will be youtube videos of babies who can't walk or talk, reading books. There is a non existent line between daydreaming and realizing how to solve a problem. It is what you do that determines if you are an adult or not. Probably the most important hallmark of being an adult is aiding and abetting the proliferation of life and acting in a manner that allows the continued development of future generations of life in a healthy and constructive manner. Life is more than just people raising people.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Aren't all good stories escapism? I'm not sure they have an age on them,

There's a massive difference between being blown away with a story intended for another age group and encouraging misogyny and paedophilia which seems to be where the article is heading.

 

[Ray Zdybrow]

Oh it's harmless escapism. Or is it?

My first inkling of this question was way back in the 90s when I was commuting by train into London and noticed a surprising number of adults reading Harry Potter. The Le Carres, Barbara Taylor Bradfords, and John Updikes seemed to me to have disappeared.

The more I looked at movie listings the more comic book characters like Batman and Transformers seemed to dominate. Looking at Japan things were slipping even faster. Their culture seemed to be sliding into Hello Kitty, adult Pokemon fans and young women in their 20s wearing rabbit I ears. (yes I know LoL)
In reading, fantasy full of spells and dragons seemed to rapidly eclipse sci-fi.

Here is an article on Japanese infantilised culture and how it is becoming pervasive in the west. Interesting I thought.
Where does it lead when a society recedes into eternal childhood rather than bite the bullet and engage in deep thinking ?

Cute Gets Creepy: Examining the Consequences of Cute Culture - Post Bubble Culture

Japan has developed a reputation for cute. The Sanrio Company has ensured the worldwide presence of the cutest creature around, Hello Kitty. Sanrio is a company that churns out the cute to the tune of $1 billion a year5. Cute has become a movement, but that comes with multiple implications...

postbubbleculture.blogs.wm.edu

Good article. A number of years ago I saw a four-ish year old girl holding her daddy's (?) hand and wearing a t-shirt with the legend "Future Porn Star". What could I do? Report it to the police, or Social Services? Why can you buy such a t-shirt in a child's size?

 

[Ray Zdybrow]

There's nothing wrong with escapist lit and I'm as guilty as hell of reading far too many comics (and even Harry Potter)* but I think there is a general societal change to towards infantilism. My own personal hate in this respect is having inanimate objects address me albeit only in writing but I've read enough Philip K Dick to know what comes next. Product wrappers are always telling me, "Pop me in the fridge! I'll last longer", or "Open me this end!", or "I'm delicious with..." I'm turning into one of those mad bastards that used to frighten me as a kid angrily muttering to themselves in shops. "You're not fecking telling me what to do - you're a bag of tomatoes. You don't get a first person pronoun. You're an IT! I know you'll last longer in the fridge I'm not a fecking total moron."


*In my defence I will say that most of them are in French as I'm trying to teach myself the language. (The fact that I only want to learn French so I can read their comic books is a wee bit of a self-defeating circular argument but I'm getting old; I haven't got time to rationalise such selfishness.)

Bags from shops that say "I'm not a plastic bag!" Or the absolute f ing pits, Holland and Barrett bags that "I might just jump for joy, I just bought some old crap from Holland and Barrett!"
"Don't throw me away! Recycle me!" Etc etc

 

[Ray Zdybrow]

I think a lot of it has to do with peer pressure and expectation, and quite often that is driven by consumerism and advertising. Adults may read kid's books, but then who's going to buy all the adult books? But I think that there's a realisation (or perhaps to some extent) desperation to get anyone to buy any kind of book, considering how much competition there is from other forms of media. And I wonder how many adults bought a Harry Potter or similar easy-to-read book, who otherwise would not have bought a book at all?

I "read" the Potter saga (mostly as audiobooks at work, as I do a very simple manual job) a couple of years ago. My reason for doing that was the massive influence I could see that it has on people younger than me, including the next generations in my family. Really, although it does have escapist elements of course, it's a tale about morality, and of how right and wrong aren't simple issues, and real people can be both "good" and "evil". It's a much better and more sophisticated series than, for instance, CS Lewis's Narnia books, which patronisingly insisted on drumming conservative Christian values into the heads of readers.
Ps all the quidditch stuff was boring, and the very end was incomprehensible, but hey... don't knock Potter