The Lord of the Rings - Second Age - Amazon Prime
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Suspending and then deletion of reviews is not a good look for Amazon, but I've been very sceptical about this obsession with both obtaining reviews, and their quality or usefulness, for quite some time. I've been asked to review everything, even buying a pint of milk at a supermarket, and a packet of screws bought from Screwfix! If this is the beginning of the end of the importance of review scoring, then that's perfectly fine with me.
It's different when the reviewer is known to you and you have some respect for them - so yes to a real book club in the real world, or even to this thread here on Chronicles - but no to "celebrity" reviews, "social media influencers", and scoring made by random strangers.
Anyway, I'm quite sure my tastes are different to everyone else, maybe even unique. I never quite agree with everyone else over everything. Why then, would I think that I'd agree with the majority (if it even is) over this?
I've seen the first episode. I found it more interesting than the first episode of House of Dragons. I haven't the knowledge to critique and compare it with Tolkien's vision, but I think that even if I had, I'd need to see the complete series first before doing so.
It's different when the reviewer is known to you and you have some respect for them - so yes to a real book club in the real world, or even to this thread here on Chronicles - but no to "celebrity" reviews, "social media influencers", and scoring made by random strangers.
Anyway, I'm quite sure my tastes are different to everyone else, maybe even unique. I never quite agree with everyone else over everything. Why then, would I think that I'd agree with the majority (if it even is) over this?
I've seen the first episode. I found it more interesting than the first episode of House of Dragons. I haven't the knowledge to critique and compare it with Tolkien's vision, but I think that even if I had, I'd need to see the complete series first before doing so.
ctg
weaver of the unseen
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Why, what parts of it made it more interesting?
I think the multiple different storylines with transitions, mainly. The beautifully filmed scenery. There weren't as many (any) shots of killer crabs! The future history didn't seem so forced into the narrative.
However, it you really want a review, I watched it with my son-in-law. He has now fell asleep twice watching it and still hasn't seen the end. So, "riveting" it is not!
If I had to give one example of how egregiously bad it is, I'd say the dwarves. Gob-smackingly awful. Where were their bagpipes and sporrans?
Vladd67
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I've also seen articles by Irish* people non too happy with the Oirish proto hobbits.
*Well probably Irish Americans.
It's crudity and cliche defy belief. And that cringeworthy music...
To balance out my negativity, The Last Kingdom, Man In The High Castle and Vienna Blood were all ace.
SilentRoamer
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I have been one of the people criticising the direction of travel, feel it only fair to write something now I have seen some of it.
So I watched the first episode. I was expecting not to like this, indeed I still feel conflicted over the quality of the product and its relationship to the source material. However I always try to make up my own mind rather than being led by reviews of people who I normally align with.
The pros:
Absolutely stunning scenery and visuals. Really you can tell the VFX are absolute top notch.
Great costume design.
Beautiful music.
The cons:
Warrior elf Galadriel (the actress is doing a fine job, I just don't really like the idea of Galadriel being a warrior elf)
The opening monologue felt forced and while a direct homage to the films it just didn't flow like the Fellowship monologue.
Not a huge fan of the Irish Harfoots - I suppose their role in the story is yet to be fully determined.
Overall I enjoyed watching it, I would be far happier if they were more true to the lore but in all honesty the show looked good and felt like it had a solid narrative structure.
I will be watching episode 2 tonight and I hope it holds up.
Solid 7/10, would have been higher if this was a new show with its own IP. Probably would have gotten an 8/10.
So I watched the first episode. I was expecting not to like this, indeed I still feel conflicted over the quality of the product and its relationship to the source material. However I always try to make up my own mind rather than being led by reviews of people who I normally align with.
The pros:
Absolutely stunning scenery and visuals. Really you can tell the VFX are absolute top notch.
Great costume design.
Beautiful music.
The cons:
Warrior elf Galadriel (the actress is doing a fine job, I just don't really like the idea of Galadriel being a warrior elf)
The opening monologue felt forced and while a direct homage to the films it just didn't flow like the Fellowship monologue.
Not a huge fan of the Irish Harfoots - I suppose their role in the story is yet to be fully determined.
Overall I enjoyed watching it, I would be far happier if they were more true to the lore but in all honesty the show looked good and felt like it had a solid narrative structure.
I will be watching episode 2 tonight and I hope it holds up.
Solid 7/10, would have been higher if this was a new show with its own IP. Probably would have gotten an 8/10.
I find it odd that people criticize the Harfoots for not sounding authentically Irish, when of course they are not intended to be Irish. The story takes place in a mythic age of the world where there isn't any Ireland as yet, when there won't be any Irish for thousands and thousands of years yet, and if there were, the Harfoots wouldn't be them in any case. So they do have a kind of sort of Irish-like lilt. They need something to set them apart from the big folk.
(And anyone who hates the accents here, they must have despised Jackson's The Lord of the Rings, where a number of the actors slipped in and out of their accents throughout the movie. Especially, I blush to admit, a couple of the Americans.)
And the dwarves in RoP, supposedly stereotypically Scottish ... but in what ways do they appear Scottish, stereotypically or otherwise (aside from Durin IV's red hair and beard—but the Scots are not the only people where red or reddish hair is relatively common). They don't dress as stereotypical Scots, their architecture and lifestyle under the ground are not Scottish. Their language, I believe is more closely related to Hebrew than to any Celtic language—it looks more Hebrew, anyway. Their music doesn't sound like Scottish music. Are their accents Scottish? I thought they sounded Welsh, but maybe that's because Owain Arthur (Durin IV) has such a strong Welsh accent in the interviews that I super-impose it on his performance.
Look, if people don't like the show, that's fine. We all like what we like and dislike what we dislike. No reasons are necessary. . We are allowed to feel what we feel. But if a reason is given, it would help if it was easier for me to comprehend.
(And anyone who hates the accents here, they must have despised Jackson's The Lord of the Rings, where a number of the actors slipped in and out of their accents throughout the movie. Especially, I blush to admit, a couple of the Americans.)
And the dwarves in RoP, supposedly stereotypically Scottish ... but in what ways do they appear Scottish, stereotypically or otherwise (aside from Durin IV's red hair and beard—but the Scots are not the only people where red or reddish hair is relatively common). They don't dress as stereotypical Scots, their architecture and lifestyle under the ground are not Scottish. Their language, I believe is more closely related to Hebrew than to any Celtic language—it looks more Hebrew, anyway. Their music doesn't sound like Scottish music. Are their accents Scottish? I thought they sounded Welsh, but maybe that's because Owain Arthur (Durin IV) has such a strong Welsh accent in the interviews that I super-impose it on his performance.
Look, if people don't like the show, that's fine. We all like what we like and dislike what we dislike. No reasons are necessary. . We are allowed to feel what we feel. But if a reason is given, it would help if it was easier for me to comprehend.
The Scottish dwarves in RoP are speaking English, which is not exactly related to Hebrew. Scots Gaelic is a Celtic (technically Goidelic) language. They'd only be more Scottish if they were carrying copies of Robbie Burns books in their nearly-kilt costumes.
The cod-Scottish and cod-Irish stuff was designed by hopeless TV execs with no more integrity than a gnat. I'm sure I can hear JRRT revolving in his grave.
The cod-Scottish and cod-Irish stuff was designed by hopeless TV execs with no more integrity than a gnat. I'm sure I can hear JRRT revolving in his grave.
I believe that kilts are sincerely what you see, but they don't particularly look like kilts to me. Even if they were kilts, that wouldn't mean much, since many, many cultures over the centuries have worn garments that resembled kilts.
And as to language, it was Tolkien who said that the names and most of the dialogue of his characters in LOTR was translated into English by him from the original language of Bilbo and Frodo's narrative, which was Westron. So I suspect that is what the dwarves and the other characters are speaking in RoP, or at least some precursor to Westron (English, like the Celtic languages, not having been invented as yt when the story takes place), except when they briefly drop into their own native tongues. When the dwarves do this they are speaking Khuzdul (if you turn on the captions you can see when that happens), which Tolkien based on the Semitic languages, primarily Hebrew. You could look it up. Not that I think you should bother. If you are not enjoying the show, why make it more burdensome? It's a TV show, not a school assignment.
And as to language, it was Tolkien who said that the names and most of the dialogue of his characters in LOTR was translated into English by him from the original language of Bilbo and Frodo's narrative, which was Westron. So I suspect that is what the dwarves and the other characters are speaking in RoP, or at least some precursor to Westron (English, like the Celtic languages, not having been invented as yt when the story takes place), except when they briefly drop into their own native tongues. When the dwarves do this they are speaking Khuzdul (if you turn on the captions you can see when that happens), which Tolkien based on the Semitic languages, primarily Hebrew. You could look it up. Not that I think you should bother. If you are not enjoying the show, why make it more burdensome? It's a TV show, not a school assignment.
The best caption in the whole episode was "(elf groans)". I want to know how an elf groan differs from a human or any other groan.
I actually didn't notice the "Scottish" dwarves, but the cod-Irish-ness of the harfoots was very clearly evident with the background fiddles and flutes in the soundtrack. It wasn't very subtle at all. It does show a lack of imagination, and anything that I notice that takes me out of the narrative in order to think about it, is always a bad thing as far as I'm concerned.
I'll probably watch the second episode tonight, but neither RoP or HoD is really exciting me enough that I must watch the next episode.
It has an accent over the "o".
The kilt as we know it today, perhaps.
But as to kilt-like garments, how immensely prescient people like the Minoans and Mycenaeans must have been to array themselves in kilts thousands of years before the English got around to inventing them.
althea
If I won't be myself,who will be?
I feel about this series, the same way I feel about House of the Dragon. It's supposed to be a precursor to AGOT.
It's sheer greed and profit by the media to milk every decent idea to death.
I am not watching this.
I agree totally with Vince W about the violence.
It's sheer greed and profit by the media to milk every decent idea to death.
I am not watching this.
I agree totally with Vince W about the violence.
1. I wrote nearly-kilts, not kilts.
2. I find it a terrible irony that today we read that Elijah Wood and Dominic Monaghan have found it necessary to support actors in RoP because of the racism some actors are being subjected to. The diverse casting is good and necessary. Cultural appropriation on the other hand is neither.
2. I find it a terrible irony that today we read that Elijah Wood and Dominic Monaghan have found it necessary to support actors in RoP because of the racism some actors are being subjected to. The diverse casting is good and necessary. Cultural appropriation on the other hand is neither.
SilentRoamer
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I don't think it necessarily is. I suppose it depends whether you want to reflect modernity or authenticity. As another example - I am not a fan of watching Gods of Egypt and seeing not an Egyption in sight.
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