'A Feast for Crows' DONE!

[Rahl Windsong]

Well I really think before we can say he lost control we will have to read AFFC and then ADWD as well. You see part of the writing process is figuring out how to make your work into something someone can actually read. The writer has the story in their mind they need to be able to asemble the story so that the reader has the best possible chance of seeing the story the way the author sees it in their mind. To do that might mean juggling the order of the chapters and sometimes even leaving parts out for what ever reason. We also don't know that those characters are completely out of the story, Tyrion has to make an appearance and I think GRRM knows that.

So I think we will have to wait and see and with his track record I am betting its as good as the previous books. Tyrion has to be in the book though, no way he can leave his chapters out, can he?

Rahl

 

[Culhwch]

Well, I for one am excited. I don't mind the pushing back of certain storylines - Jon and Dany and Davos. Quite honestly, while I love Jon's and Davo's PoVs, Dany can get a bit tedious... Just contemplating the events that are taking place in the south, I think this book will deliver enough action, intrigue, and excitement to tide us over till Dance. And I truly think it's the best solution, instead of cutting it down the middle and releasing half a novel now, with no resolutions, and half a novel down the track with hastily tied-up endings. The only question is, going back to The Two Towers analogy, which will be the exciting Aragon/Gimli/Legolas/Rohan book, and which will be the less-than-exciting Frodo/Sam/Gollum book that I always want to skip? With any luck, they'll both be the first. Can't wait for the Feast to begin...

 

[Lacedaemonian]

I assume that the time span is the same for each book.

 

[hn (edited)]

Quite frankly, this really annoys me. I was recently having an argument with someone about freedom of original expression in all novels, this being a point i used to show how it all is. It is typical for publishers to pull like this, being in that end of the spectrum with alot of greed yet no talent or intelligence to match it, they thus set themselves to norms. Why can't a book be over 1600 pages? Because it costs too much money, maitenance is hard considering their ****** binding methods and everyone is used to reading short books, either because they are too busy or would rather watch Oprah. Has Martin kept true to the story? I doubt it, by splitting it up and mixing the time frame i think it will not achieve its full efect. As you all well know, each chapter is interwoven and builds into a climax, how can this be achieved when it is released in two editions? Both of which must be partly changed to suit their new context, something i doubt Martin will do for the first book, thus reducing its quality. Anyway, why not finish the book and just satisfy the bastards by doing the whole "part1" "part2" thing, if they are released at the same time it basically achieves the same effect as having it as one book and the publishers don't have to earn their pay. Or maybe he hasn't finished and those pulling the strings want to make money out of his material so far.

 

[Raven]

cercar: Cat will no longer have a POV, George has explicitly confirmed.

hn (what kind of a username is that?): there are, quite simply, physical issues about releasing a book of that size. These can be overcome for a hardback, but only at a cost.

Better binding, for example, increases the cost of the book beyond the price where many bookstores and distributors will bother to carry it. Better quality paper stock (required for strength in a book that thick) would do the same. The physical size and weight of the hardback would also have put some bookstores and distributors off: it would take up too much shelf space, for example.

The net result would be that many fans simply wouldn't be able to get hold of the book.

When it comes to the paperback, still the format where most sales come, there was in effect no way to avoid splitting the book. George jokes about onionskin paper in his announcement, but even with the lightest grade of paper and type so small as to be unreadable to many readers it wouldn't have been possible. And paperbacks that thick simply can't be bound so that they won't fall apart after a couple of readings. We were looking at two, maybe even three, paperbacks.

George was unhappy about this happening in ASOS, because he felt that it short-changed readers: the individual paperbacks didn't have a beginning, middle and end. You had to buy both to get that, which is OK for serious fans, but not for casual readers. And an author that writes only for the serious fan is not a good author, IMO.

He preferred, as he says, to tell the whole story for some characters rather than part for all of them. And as I say, this solution was the one George favoured and pushed for, so blaming the publishers for it is rather unfair.

 

[hn (edited)]

Yeah, all understood. But why not release seperate paperbacks at once? maybe in a box set etc. It all seems as if the format of the book has been changed yet the content won't be, well at least not to a great extent. Of course, you can't expect him to rewrite the whole first half of the book to be a stand alone, so, in effect, it is basically splitting the novel in half, maybe with a half-hearted conclusion at the end. As for publishers not wishing to spend more money etc. I totally agree, that's the problem which i was pointing out. Indeed, Martin may have gone with the best choice (maybe), considering the pressure from publishers. Yet when i read a book, i don't want to think that it could of been a hell of alot better, only if publishers were willing to seek alternative methods of distribution. As for storage space, not really a problem. I should know, i work in a book store near my uni, storage space (not on the shelves mind) is never usually full, so staff can just keep on restocking the shelves. Shelves which are already stacked with brick like novels from the likes of Clavell etc. Authors who have books easily over 1000 pages and have multiple editions on the shelves.

Yet then again, the books will probably be great, i just hope they are as great as they could be

 

[Raven]

hn: well, the choice was between having the novel split in half by character or split in half by chronology. George's decision was that it was better to do the former. He says this will give two 'whole stories' featuring different characters, but set in the same world, rather than one story in two halves.

Given the preview chapters I've read, I think this is possible with the events in AFFC, whereas it might not have been in, say, ACOK. The stories are more... seperated.

Mind you, even in ACOK (heck, even in AGOT), this was true to some extent - you could have released Dany's chapters as a seperate novel all along. Jon's story detaches rather from ACOK on, as do Arya's, Sansa's, and Bran's. They are much more self-contained.

Anyway, the point is that George feels that the chapters to be contained in AFFC already work as a stand-alone story, and don't need reworking to do so. So what we will get is, in the author's opinion, a stand-alone story, with the conclusion to each of the story arcs contained therein that would have been in AFFC anyway.

As for the storage space issue: well, bookshops near unis are one thing. Bookshops in small towns are another. They will tend to need the space more.

But shelf space is the crucial issue. A massive hardback or a set of paperbacks will only get the shelf space if the shop is convinced they'll sell enough to justify it. That's why Grisham gets all that shelf space for those bricklike paperbacks, and Tolkien gets a whole shelf to himself, while you'll be lucky to find any GRRM at all (other than this series) in the average bookstore.

ETA - not that I think any author, apart from Stephen King maybe, would get away with a hardback the size AFFC was going to be.

 

[Direwolf]

For the worriers out there, I think it's good to remember that Martin originally planned a several-year gap between books 3 and 4. I remember an update on his site where he said that this format was working for some characters, but not for others, so he abandoned it. I think the characters to the north and east are the ones for whom this format would have worked; Arya is training, Dany is staying put and building up a city, Jon and Stannis are developing the Gift and re-arming the wall. Their story could easily skip ahead a few years.

However, I think the characters for whom the several-year gap would not have worked are the ones currently struggling for power: Cersei, Littlefinger/Sansa, the Greyjoys, the Tyrells, and the Dornish. Making book 4 solely about them makes sense from a story-telling point of view.

 

[chopper]

Well, hallelujah and all that - I'll add my tuppence-ha'penny's worth, but most of my own views appear to have been touched upon. Persoanlly I like the idea of splitting the book by geography. A lot of the story threads are now separated by vast stretches of continents, which means they won't affect each other quite so immediately, and I think I'll like being able to concentrate on a small(er) number of POVs rather than having to wrestle with an alarmingly bad short-term memory and flick back constantly to work out who I'm reading about. And I think I'll like being able to concentrate on a small(er) number of POVs rather than...oh, hang on...
Anyway, the POVs in ADWD will affect the POVs in AFFC and vice versa, but it'll take away our omniscient viewpoint - and I think I rather like that idea too. It'll be infuriating, but also fun to try to work out what "the other side" is doing. And of course when ADWD comes out it'll all dovetail nicely and we'll all bang our heads on the wall and shout "Of course!" Or something like that.
Quality-wise, the only issue I have is with GRRM seriously needing to avoid describing every damned change of clothes that every single damned character goes through (the Nyneave Syndrome). So far so good.

 

[cercar]

I don't really like the whole skipping a few years thing. Truthfully I like chapters that are less detrimental to the regualr storyline, those ones that really give an insight to the world and not just the great events in it. I would really have liked to have seen Jon rebuilding the gift instead of it fast forwarding or learning about Arya's training and Bran's as well instead of just having Arya as face changing assasin and Bran as a Warg. It adds realism to the world.

 

[Blue Mythril]

Something that frustrates me about all this is that people seem to have forgotten that this is his work. I mean, audience and all that is important, especially if your aim is to be a commercial writer. However I think something that fans forget is that this is the author's work, the product of their dreams, aspirations and imagination and thus they can make executive decisions about what they want their work to be about. Especially in the case of Mr Martin, I think its safe to say its gone beyond commerce and profit and he's become quite thoroughly absorbed in the story, in his major work. Think how much time and energy he's devoted to this thing. As someone who once sacrificed what I wanted a work to be like for the sake of what others thought it should be like, I think its very important to maintain integrity in what you want the work to be.

As an example take Ridley Scott and Bladerunner. That's one case of a guy who gave into what the producers wanted, the result: A movie which flops and a very dissatisfied director. When he finally released the director's cut, the movie became a cult classic.

When it comes down to it, in these cases I'm very much inclined to trust the authors/ creaters. Who else really knows what's best for their works?

 

[Lacedaemonian]

Punch and kick them K. Show them that your kung fu style is better.

I have no doubt that Martin will do an excellent job of this series, I have absolute faith in the man. However, readers get jumpy since Jordan ruined a few hundred thousand peoples lives when early dementia set in.

 

[Raven]

Just FYI: according to reports from the NY Book Expo, the publishing date for AFFC will be November. A little later than many of us hoped, but a pretty firm guideline nonetheless. (That's the US pubdate, of course, but the UK one is not likely to beat it by much this time.)

 

[monkeydude]

I keep hearing November 8th.

 

[Raven]

A bit more detail, from Parris (George's partner):

So, let's recap, just make sure everyone understands what I'm telling you and there's no room for rumours and speculation.

US Bantam edition release date is currently set for November 8, 2005. George will do a US tour in November, lasting at least 2 weeks. We do not have information on the tour dates or cities yet.

HarperCollinsUK has not yet set their release date. We hope to have that date in 2-4 weeks from now. Again, HarperCollinsUK has not yet set their release date.

As far as publication dates for the rest of the world, the release of the audibooks or any other tours in the UK, Australia or Europe, we do not have any information we can share with you at this time.

 

[Jinglehopper]

November 8th! Will I have time to reread the series before then? Will I have time to get my hair done? Why do these things always sneak up on me?

/sarcasm

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Haha. Jinglehopper, definitely get your hair done. It would be a travesty if you didn't have an updated look while purchasing the new book. May I recommend blue hair glue?

 

[Young Wolf]

Hey Cali girl, welcome back, been a bit of a bore without you. By the way, I'd love to get your insight on what I said about the Children of the Forest, check the 'Bran' thread.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Hey Young Wolf- I gave my scattered thoughts on the "Bran" thread, as you requested.

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

I notice that GRRM will be doing a UK book tour in October for the release of his book.

UK release 15th October
US release 8th November

nyah, nyah - we're gonna post spoilers!!

I hope he gets further north than Birmingham. Most authors never seem to realise we exist further north than that! *sigh*