VOTING IN THE WRITING CHALLENGES

[Elckerlyc]

(And actually, the votes you've got in the 2022-23 year put you in the top 25% of entrants.)

(That does surprise me!)

Either way, it can't be said to be a waste of time, surely.

There are loads of other stuff I could do, which may give me more satisfaction or make me feel more useful.
I write because I love writing. But when nobody appreciates it than, after awhile, that love dies.
Though, admittedly, I would kill do anything for a good idea for a novel...

 

[Christine Wheelwright]

....I would kill for a good idea for a novel....

How about a novel about a struggling writer who does exactly that?

 

[THX1138]

Yep, getting zero votes when you think you've written a good story is dispiriting. We've all been there and experienced that. But, of course, until voting is over, it's impossible to know how many votes everyone is going to get, and voting early would surely eliminate any angst on a monthly/quarterly basis. So my advice is to vote early before there's any hint that a crappy story might achieve success while your own marvellous entry remains unloved. (Personally, though I usually vote late, I rarely if ever look at the Discussion thread, let alone check the poll, before I vote, so it has the same effect -- I don't know what's been going on or who is getting votes/mentions.)

I'd also agree that enthusiasm is bound to wane if one enters a lot but rarely gets votes. However, surely it's enthusiasm for entering. I find it hard to believe someone would apparently be so traumatised at continually getting no mentions/votes that they can't simply bring themselves to vote, and thereby give pleasure to someone else, but they can carry on subjecting themselves to the ordeal of entering the Challenges and getting those no votes.

If members are distressed at entering often but rarely getting votes, then I'd urge them to ask for feedback in the Improving threads to find out why their stories aren't gelling with readers. It may be that the advice given there and/or some simple writing techniques might help, in which case the problem would be solved. If it is the case that their style of writing simply isn't appreciated here, then the adult way to behave is either to bow out gracefully or to accept that one is writing for oneself and that it comes with a price, namely getting no attention from others, but that it doesn't negate one's commitment to/implicit contract with those others. Otherwise it frankly it sounds to me more like a dog-in-the-mangerish I-won't-vote-for-anyone-because-no one-ever-votes-for-me attitude which is as out of place here as those members who try to vote for themselves.

Basically, it's an issue of fairness. Entering without voting on a regular basis is taking without giving back. Reciprocity is the bedrock of any community, and the Challenges are no exception.


Anyway, thanks, everyone, for feedback on the issue, and for some good ideas, especially for trying to reach non-entrants.

That's what friends and family are for! No vote on Chrons but friends and family enjoy it, good enough for me!
I do this for self-learning and fun. Chrons has its own feel to the challenges, just like any other Writing Form does. Its own personality. I like it!

 

[JS Wiig]

If you enter but don’t vote in (3?) consecutive challenges then your (user)name goes on the Great Chrons Challenges No-Voter Wall of Shame, in bold underlined italics, published and linked in multiple conspicuous locations throughout the site, for the quiet shameful reproach of the responsible voting participants. FREELOADERS WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!

Ok, sorry that was a bit over the top.

 

[paranoid marvin]

I think that if you want people to read and (potentially) vote for your story, then you should want to do the same in return. However life sometimes intervenes, and I can understand why some months people may not vote because they haven't had a chance to properly assess the entries.

The entries are so varied in style and ideas that it's often hard to decide which one is 'best'; and there are so many different qualifiers for the title. So normally I go for the one I enjoyed reading the most - which is sometimes, but not always - the same thing. Which is to say that no-one should lose heart if this isn't their month. Read the successful entries, put your entry up for feedback and try again next month.

 

[Elckerlyc]

Read the successful entries, put your entry up for feedback and try again next month.

But that's the crux really, isn't it?
I don't want to write copies of other people's successful entries. I want voters to like my stories, the ones that have my signature.
Feedback is fine for technical issues in writing, not for style or tone.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

But that's the crux really, isn't it?
I don't want to write copies of other people's successful entries. I want voters to like my stories, the ones that have my signature.
Feedback is fine for technical issues in writing, not for style or tone.

But only through feedback do we know whether our style and tone is coming across the way we hope it do. I’ve had so much feedback over the years, and none of it has removed my voice (or my atrocious lack of grammatical niceties, although her honour has tried her best) - although much of it has made my voice stronger and more effective.

No one should be copying others to win - there is no win by numbers. I’ve seen hugely variant stories win. I’ve read entries I adored that bombed.

 

[paranoid marvin]

But that's the crux really, isn't it?
I don't want to write copies of other people's successful entries. I want voters to like my stories, the ones that have my signature.
Feedback is fine for technical issues in writing, not for style or tone.

I agree. I meant to help with techniques that assist in enhancing our own individual style and ideas, not to emulate someone else's.

When I first started entering the Challenges on this forum, I hadn't written a story - let alone a poem - since my schooldays. Practice, feedback and the reading of other entries helped me to understand how to structure a story; and how effective one word or phrase can be. I hope that I will keep learning and improving, but never at the cost of losing my identity.

 

[Luiglin]

I'd prefer the 300 to follow the same as the 75 and only have a single vote. Having more votes to throw around only makes it worse when you don't get any.

I know this is all just for fun. But can anyone honestly say that they don't get dispirited when they get no votes or mentions? I'll be honest here, I find it a right kick in the happy sacks.

I've flittered back and forth between pretending not to give a damn and forcing myself to adjust my own writing to match what I think is the current trend. I really hate doing the latter. It is like being shamed into following the crowd.

By the way, neither way works. The only reason I'm high in the stats charts is because I always enter. Sheer law of averages comes into effect at that point

Back to the original point though, I always vote. I only see it as fair to all that have taken time to write an entry. I don't always have time to write a shortlist, which I apologise for. Those, when they include a small review with them, often help massage the ego.

 

[THX1138]

Just as a personal observation. Being that Chronicles is a SFF form, there are many, if not more, non-fiction writers here too.
Perhaps a bi-monthly/quarterly 300 worder or something for them as well? When it comes down to it, if you want to learn how to write SF/F, you need to learn how to write first. That's the main reason why I'm here.

Plus, going through the History and Literature threads, all I can say is, 'WOW! What passion and detail in their writings!' Yes, it's in the Nature/Science and Technology posts too, but you can really learn a lot from the Literature thread. Just my simple view.

 

[mosaix]

I'd prefer the 300 to follow the same as the 75 and only have a single vote. Having more votes to throw around only makes it worse when you don't get any.

I know this is all just for fun. But can anyone honestly say that they don't get dispirited when they get no votes or mentions? I'll be honest here, I find it a right kick in the happy sacks.

I've flittered back and forth between pretending not to give a damn and forcing myself to adjust my own writing to match what I think is the current trend. I really hate doing the latter. It is like being shamed into following the crowd.

By the way, neither way works. The only reason I'm high in the stats charts is because I always enter. Sheer law of averages comes into effect at that point

Back to the original point though, I always vote. I only see it as fair to all that have taken time to write an entry. I don't always have time to write a shortlist, which I apologise for. Those, when they include a small review with them, often help massage the ego.

In a strange way I don’t feel particularly bad when I get no votes. I seem to split the challenges into two parts. The first is actually writing something that I’m happy within the word limit. The whole exercise of writing a story then cutting it down to 75 or 300 using various tricks and devices, without losing the essence of the story, I find particularly satisfying.

The second part is, of course, the voting. My own particular psychological makeup tells me not to expect any. So anything above that is a bonus. Maybe that comes from being a Manchester City supporter of many years standing.

 

[THX1138]

In a strange way I don’t feel particularly badly when I get no votes. I seem to split the challenges into two parts. The first is actually writing something that I’m happy within the word limit. The whole exercise of writing a story then cutting it down to 75 or 300 using various tricks and devices, without losing the essence of the story, I find particularly satisfying.

The second part is, of course, the voting. My own particular psychological makeup tells me not to expect any. So anything above that is a bonus. Maybe that comes from being a Manchester City supporter of many years standing.

I agree, it's a satisfying exercise in writing.

 

[Luiglin]

In a strange way I don’t feel particularly badly when I get no votes. I seem to split the challenges into two parts. The first is actually writing something that I’m happy within the word limit. The whole exercise of writing a story then cutting it down to 75 or 300 using various tricks and devices, without losing the essence of the story, I find particularly satisfying.

The second part is, of course, the voting. My own particular psychological makeup tells me not to expect any. So anything above that is a bonus. Maybe that comes from being a Manchester City supporter of many years standing.

Yes, it is an exercise in writing and, due to work stress, the only one I've been doing for the last year.

I do get personal satisfaction from completing something. However, this often gets tarnished and raises self-doubt when no one else seems to like it. This is the emotional kick that fights with my logical side which says "don't be daft, you can't please everyone and don't try to”

The problem is that stress batters down the logic side. Enough of that though.

 

[The Judge]

Just as a personal observation. Being that Chronicles is a SFF form, there are many, if not more, non-fiction writers here too.
Perhaps a bi-monthly/quarterly 300 worder or something for them as well? When it comes down to it, if you want to learn how to write SF/F, you need to learn how to write first. That's the main reason why I'm here.

I'd question whether learning to write in an academic way would be of great use for fiction writers, save as to general grammar and punctuation that could be picked up elsewhere. I'm also not convinced a competition of this kind would work, and still less convinced it would have legs, regularly attracting the attention of members who aren't interested in the ordinary Challenges. But I'm certainly happy to be proved wrong!

Anyone can start a thread in Workshop, so if you can come up with a prompt you think would generate a number of short non-fiction articles from members, go for it!

 

[elvet]

Anyone can start a thread in Workshop, so if you can come up with a prompt you think would generate a number of short non-fiction articles from members, go for it!

Just look at the Anonymous Challenge, still going since about 2014!

 

[Phyrebrat]

I wonder how many of us here who become dispirited or disheartened by lack of votes listen to author/writers podcasts.

Just the latest of our very own Chronscast, in the second half Emily talks about the loneliness and isolation of being a writer.

As someone who has spent many years in therapy and working on myself, I have to say there must be something going on psychologically more than ‘boo hoo’.

I’m not a resilient person, have to work on self-esteem but when I do badly in a challenge I never feel in any kind of way bad.

Without going into ‘life is hard’ lessons, I would say that at the end of it all, it comes down to how happy are you for your own piece? When I posted my for Oct 300 I loved it but was pretty convinced I’d tank with t because it is another of my stories that’s written for me. Abjection/human condition/existentialism are kind of the only place I go to in my writing and it’s not for everyone. But it’s what I feel proud of irrespective of votes.

The idea of writing to win instead of writing what you know or love, is putting the cart before the horse.

I also feel a little teacherly about all this anguish: part of me understands, but my context of Chrons is being a horror/WF author and having to constantly deal with SFF. I never expect to do well in challenges but I write my own stuff/style knowing my genre/style ain’t for everyone.

For those of you who struggle with few votes, imagine what it’s like being part of a community like Chrons not because you ‘fit’ but because horror is crowbarred into genre fiction like a poor cousin. It’s hard to feel empathy for people getting few votes when you are the ‘other’ in a community.

 

[Christine Wheelwright]

I think some kind of coping mechanism works well. For example, those that are nervous when public speaking are encouraged to imagine their audience naked. Similarly, when I get zero votes I just assume you are all idiots.

 

[Pyan]

I do know that one of these days I'll look at a subject and think "Aha!"

And just as I was reading the replies to this thread, the spark went "tzing!", and an idea sprang forth like Pallas Athena from Zeus' forehead...

 

[The Big Peat]

The idea of writing to win instead of writing what you know or love, is putting the cart before the horse.

Then why is it a contest, rather than just a monthly join-in thing with a very active feedback thread?

Either the winning is quite important and I don't think it's cart before the horse but more a team or horses before the carriage, or it's not and things are set up in a way that needlessly tangles things.



In any case, I do have a lot of sympathy for those who feel disinclined to enter a contest they don't do well in. I mainly don't enter these because I always forget, and I'm not a huge fan of short stories anyway, but the fact I rarely do well does also enter it. Of course it does.

And people can say "yes, but there's your chance to get better" and the answer is "better at what?" I am always writing and showing things to people, and I get more positive feedback, as well as more critical feedback, when I take what I write to other audiences. One of the headline pieces of writing advice is You Can't Please Everyone. An obvious corollary of that is if you have people who like what you do and people who don't - assuming no unhelpful bias on the part of the former - pay more attention to the former.

This is a small audience and things that don't do well here can and will do well elsewhere.

I mean, goodness, there's a second contest right here already with the anonymous challenge, with a very different cast of recent winners. Which in itself points to another part of "is this worth it for me", namely that name recognition clearly does come into voting and you can either struggle away until you become a name, or you can find audiences that instantly take to your ideas, or where name recognition doesn't come into it.

Some people take what they do here and go to those other audiences, but I see no reason not to skip the intermediate step. The feedback thread could be touted as a reason to do it here, but my experience of it was getting a lot of "not a lot wrong with it just didn't grab me".

I do not say this for sympathy or for votes. Simply that taking a "buck up it will be useful" attitude is not useful for all members.

 

[mosaix]

I may be wrong @The Big Peat but I do believe that the word 'contest' was deliberately avoided and the word 'challenge' used instead when the 75 was started some 10 or so years ago.

Of course, that doesn't stop people from seeing it as a contest if they want to.