Can Drunks Have Serious Conversations?

[Lafayette]

The Roman's said 'In Wine there's truth.' Also, I went to school with a man from mainland China once. He was a very successful business man there. He said, drinking was foundational to doing business with another and integral in the negotiation of contracts (which if I recall correctly, was more about trust, honesty and a handshake.) In fact, he said, in Chinese culture, if you don't drink, I don't trust you. Now. I'm no expert on these matters but I think that settles it.

What is the alcoholism rate in China?

Personally, I wouldn't trust people that would want me to be smashed to do business with. Not only that, if you're drunk you can't make good decisions pertaining to anything, especially business. Surely, they must know this.

 

[AllanR]

I don't think they get necessarily get drunk during these get to know affairs. And the drinking is almost always with a meal. I think the actual business negotiations take place at another sober time.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I also believe talking is story, because words tell us what may be or may not be inside a character.

POV is supposed to help us get into a character's mind and thoughts. Using dialogue instead to convey this risks a story being a screenplay, not a novel.

Daft question, but do you read much fiction? If so, are you following any specific published examples of your style? I ask simply because I made the mistake of stopping reading, then trying to find my own style where the reader had to guess the thoughts and feelings of characters through dialogue, and it was a massive mistake.

 

[sciwriterPark]

I guess at least the Greeks thought so. At their symposia, citizens would gather for dinner, drinking, conversation, music, and entertainment. Isn't this the model for graduate school symposiums?

 

[sknox]

FWIW, a symposium isn't the same as a seminar.

As for the serious conversation, if drunk (which is not synonymous with merely drinking), the conversation is only serious to the drunks themselves. I doubt the reader would so regard it.

 

[feralreason]

Recently, I tried writing a scene where two drunks are having a serious conversation regarding events where one is not happy about. I was told by most of the critiquers (except for one) that this was not believable.

So, what are your opinions? I need some serious feedback so I can move on writing my story.

I would say that it is only "not believable" if the characters were not capable of having serious conversations when they were sober. (Is either of these an aging politician ?

 

[CAOM]

A scene with drunk people having a serious conversation can totally be believable if you pay attention to emotional depth, natural dialogue, and context.

 

[THX1138]

Try going down to your local pub on a Friday or Saturday night and do some people watching, staying sober yourself, and just listen to them for a while.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Try going down to your local pub on a Friday or Saturday night and do some people watching, staying sober yourself, and just listen to them for a while.

Probably better doing iy with friends. Watch how their demeanor, language etc change as they go from sober to not.

 

[THX1138]

True.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Sta

True.

Staring at a bunch of half-cut strangers in the pub could lead to all sorts of misunderstandings!

 

[THX1138]

Good character research though!

 

[KGeo777]

What is the alcoholism rate in China?

Personally, I wouldn't trust people that would want me to be smashed to do business with. Not only that, if you're drunk you can't make good decisions pertaining to anything, especially business. Surely, they must know this.

I know a guy who was taken to a strip club and offered lots to drink before he negotiated a contract. He drank lots of water beforehand so he could remain sober for it.

 

[Ursa major]

Apologies if this has been mentioned before.

It would lack some of the dramatic impact that the two would experience individually.

I can't help thinking that it should be more important for the reader to experience the dramatic impact than the characters (over whose reactions you have complete control).

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

Why was it that the moment I read this post, the first thing that came to mind was the Mitchel and Webb (I think) sketch, the inebriati? In order to rule the world wisely and well leaders, movers and shakers need to always have two drinks under their belt but never three! They had an entire justification for it.

Personally yes, going back to my student days I remember many of many fellow students having extremely serious conversations while pissed out of their trees. Whether any of them remembered what was said the next day is another matter!

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Karapace]

What is the alcoholism rate in China?

Personally, I wouldn't trust people that would want me to be smashed to do business with. Not only that, if you're drunk you can't make good decisions pertaining to anything, especially business. Surely, they must know this.

It occurs to me that in the past and perhaps in the present lots of merchants would do business over a drink for two reasons. Inhibitions go down so people may speak the truth more resdily but also because people make rash descisions. If you were a merchant used to alcohol and you wanted to off load some cheap worthless item, what better way than to get your client drunk enough to think it a good idea. Reminds me of a friend who makes stupid internet purchases when drunk.
Also, although i don't drink much anymore, I seem to recall that ALL drunken conversations were serious, just not very coherant.

 

[THX1138]

So, I am reading Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy by J.L. Carre, and there is a scene about a third of the way through the book were Smiley and Guillam are out getting drunk. The conversation is written so that Smiley gets fixated on one word spoken by Guillam and when Smiley talks, being more inebriated, it is in a short and iterated stance while being of wit to the conversation. No slurring of words.

 

[Fiberglass Cyborg]

I don't know about China, but I do know that getting absolutely hammered together is an essential part of Japanese corporate culture. Salarymen find it very, very hard to speak their minds frankly to colleagues and superiors, which can lead to a business making stupid decisions because no-one dared speak up against them. So every so often the boss will take you all out for a night of hard drinking where nothing you say can be held against you.

 

[Valtharius]

The Greeks by custom always diluted their wine with water.

 

[Swank]

The Greeks by custom always diluted their wine with water.

If they were like a lot of ancient people, they did so because they were preventing cholera by avoiding drinking straight water.