Villeneuve's Dune: Part Two (2024)

[Foxbat]

I didn't hate Paul during Dune Messiah, I pitied him.

He reminded me of Hamlet. He was torn by indecision. His prescience had shown him what he had to do to secure Humanity's future - but what about his own humanity? Does he truly have to sacrifice all that he is for the greater good? Does he truly have to become something monstrous and despotic to brighten the future prospects of all humans? To be its saviour, it is necessary that Paul must be hated and feared by the people that he rules. Like Hamlet, he never really reaches that crucial point of decision when events overtake him. The fateful choice then becomes the poisonous legacy that is handed down to his son.

 

[Rodders]

I tried to read Children of Dune, but really struggled with it. I did enjoy the TV adaptation, but then i have no frame of reference.

I saw a short video on Austin Butler's depiction of Feyd. It looks really good. Intense.

 

[Dave]

I think I read the first 8 or 9 books, but only it was a very long time ago (40+ years and I can remember little.) I do remember diminishing returns, and those not written by Frank Herbert are inferior, but I do agree with @Foxbat regarding Dune Messiah. Also, if this current series of films isn't completed then all we can expect in the future will be yet another reworking of the first book!

 

[Stephen Palmer]

Dune Messiah is a brilliant depiction of the complex realpolitik of holding power in less than ideal circumstances. Great book.

 

[ctg]

Does anyone know how Mr Herbert saw the Messiah?

 

[CupofJoe]

I'm not sure what they made of it...

Dune: Part Two review: Denis Villeneuve's science-fiction sequel is jaw-droppingly weird

Starring Timothée Chalamet and Zendaya, Denis Villeneuve's epic science-fiction sequel abandons logic and clarity – and is light years away from the average Hollywood blockbuster.

www.bbc.com

 

[Foxbat]

I'm not sure what they made of it...

Dune: Part Two review: Denis Villeneuve's science-fiction sequel is jaw-droppingly weird

Starring Timothée Chalamet and Zendaya, Denis Villeneuve's epic science-fiction sequel abandons logic and clarity – and is light years away from the average Hollywood blockbuster.

www.bbc.com

It kind of confirms to me that viewers who haven’t read the book might struggle a bit (this critic obviously hasn’t read it).

 

[Elckerlyc]

I'm not sure what they made of it...

Dune: Part Two review: Denis Villeneuve's science-fiction sequel is jaw-droppingly weird

Starring Timothée Chalamet and Zendaya, Denis Villeneuve's epic science-fiction sequel abandons logic and clarity – and is light years away from the average Hollywood blockbuster.

www.bbc.com

I think that's one critic who haven't read the book and therefore hasn't clue what it is all about. This may be the case for a majority of the viewers. I don't care, as as long as the people who read the book can enjoy it.

 

[Dave]

I agree. It makes me want to see it even more, but then I have read the book (even if a long time ago.)

What exactly is propelling these enormous legless, eyeless monsters? They don't wiggle like snakes, and worms aren't generally known for their swiftness, so how do creatures as big as bullet trains manage to move as fast as bullet trains, too?

But films with cars jumping five other cars and bridges that are out, then crashing and burning, while the occupants walk away is okay? Starships travelling faster than the speed of light, or through wormholes without being crushed, that's okay in a film? Sound in a vacuum? Every planet has humanoid life? Those are okay? Just sandworms are not okay?

 

[Elckerlyc]

Correcting: speeding sandworms are not okay.

 

[ctg]

For all its influence and vision, Frank Herbert’s original Dune novel never quite hit the note the author intended. With its sweeping sci-fi vistas of desert worlds and space age T.E. Lawrences, it’s easy to see why some readers got lost in the adventure of it all—or simply extracted those fun bits for their own riffs on galaxies far, far away. Still, it was never Herbert’s goal to pen a white savior narrative about Paul Atredies, a boy hero plagued by prophecies of genocide.


After viewing the second volume of Denis Villeneuve’s grand but immensely foreboding adaptation of Dune, it’s safe to say that no one will make that same mistake about this work. Dune: Part Two is, to be sure, a profound cinematic achievement, a dense and richly layered spectacle that immerses you into strange worlds and fantastic ideas.

Dune 2 Review: Denis Villenuve Makes the Bleakest Sci-Fi Masterpiece in the Galaxy

Dune: Part Two surpasses its predecessor and offers a bleak and brilliant masterpiece about messiahs and the body counts they accrue.

www.denofgeek.com

5 stars from Den of Geek

 

[ctg]

Correcting: speeding sandworms are not okay.

Who's going to give them a ticket?

 

[Swank]

I agree. It makes me want to see it even more, but then I have read the book (even if a long time ago.)

But films with cars jumping five other cars and bridges that are out, then crashing and burning, while the occupants walk away is okay? Starships travelling faster than the speed of light, or through wormholes without being crushed, that's okay in a film? Sound in a vacuum? Every planet has humanoid life? Those are okay? Just sandworms are not okay?

Considering how often people on this very forum complain about sound in space, FTL, etc - I'm not sure why this criticism of the sandworm special effects bothers you. Herbert didn't describe them moving like they are on wheels, so the filmmaker certainly could make an effort to depict some sort of propulsion.

 

[Lacedaemonian]

Very difficulty to summarise the themes of these books. The complexity seems to grow at a magnitude with each book. I only read the first four books as I was told by a friend that the books aren't worth reading that. Oh and to also never to read anything by Brian.

 

[paranoid marvin]

My first encounter with Dune was the Lynch movie, which did impress me with its visuals, but which thoroughly confused me with the storyline.

I then played the graphic adventure/strategy game which I enjoyed very much, before moving on to the even better RTS game Dune II.

I enjoyed these so much that I went on to read the first novel, which I thought was very good. After reading this, I went back and watched Lynch's Dune which (because I could now fill in the gaps) I now much better understand and enjoy.

For some reason though, I never feltbthe need to read beyond that first book. It felt like a complete story in and of itself, with little or no loose ends.

Judging by some comments on the other books in the Dune series, it sounds like I made the right decision.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Paul sees the Fremen as a resource, not a charity. He would have left Arrakis with smugglers if he wasn't invested in flipping the power back to the Atreides.

Initially perhaps, as did everyone else. (From memory) to the Harkonnen the Fremen were an inconvenience to be enslaved and/or eliminated; Paul's father would have worked with the Fremen, but only whilst they assisted (or at least didn't hinder) the harvesting of the Spice. If they had, then I suspect that the Duke and House Atreides would have sought to eliminate them. Whatever else happened, the Spice must flow.

But after Paul meeting the Fremen I got the feeling that he had found the missing purpose in his life, which was to aid them in their emancipation and liberation of Arrakis. I didn't get the impression that the promotion of House Atreides was foremost in his mind; otherwise he would likely have wanted to control the distribution of Spice in order to cement his powerbase.

 

[Foxbat]

. I didn't get the impression that the promotion of House Atreides was foremost in his mind; otherwise he would likely have wanted to control the distribution of Spice in order to cement his powerbase.

But that's exactly what he did in Dune He displayed to the emperor, the guild and bene gesserit as well as the other great houses his ability to destroy all spice production on Arrakis unless they gave in to his demands. He threatens to use transformed water of life on a pre-spice mass that will cause a chain reaction of destruction, killing the sandtrout and ending the worm life cycle. If he can destroy spice, he controls it and if he controls it, he can dictate how it is distributed.

 

[paranoid marvin]

But that's exactly what he did in Dune He displayed to the emperor, the guild and bene gesserit as well as the other great houses his ability to destroy all spice production on Arrakis unless they gave in to his demands. He threatens to use transformed water of life on a pre-spice mass that will cause a chain reaction of destruction, killing the sandtrout and ending the worm life cycle. If he can destroy spice, he controls it and if he controls it, he can dictate how it is distributed.

I think that he does all this to help fulfill his destiny, which isn't ruling the galaxy through the distribution of spice.

My understanding was that true power wasn't being Emperor, which was more a figurehead, but being leader of a House that controlled him, and thus kept the other Houses in check.

If he had cared more for House Atreides than for the fremen, I think he secures Arrakis for his House, then plays the political game by getting the Emperor in his pocket and jointly eliminating the Harkonnen presence on the planet; perhaps destroying House Harkonnen forever.

If he carries out his threat on Arrakis, the likelihood is that he will never fulfill his destiny. He weakens everyone else, but leaves himself with no further cards to play.

 

[Foxbat]

I think that he does start off with the intention of furthering the interests of House Atreides and then the Fremen but, as his awareness both of his powers and the future unfolds before him, his own sense of destiny pushes him away from those designs and on to a (golden) path concerning the future of all Humanity. He simply outgrows the petty squabbles of empire.

I think if push comes to shove, Paul would destroy all spice if he had to. The Bene Gesserit could (despite his own power) likely sense if he was bluffing through their truthsayers. He, therefore, must be sincere in his threat. The other point is that he may lose his only card but the Guild would no longer be able to manipulate space, the empire economy would grind to a halt, the Bene Gesserit would be rendered harmless, the great houses would lose much of their wealth and the navigators would die. In a nutshell, the empire has more to lose. It is the classic mistake of allowing a single point of failure within a system.

 

[Dave]

Considering how often people on this very forum complain about sound in space, FTL, etc - I'm not sure why this criticism of the sandworm special effects bothers you. Herbert didn't describe them moving like they are on wheels, so the filmmaker certainly could make an effort to depict some sort of propulsion.

I'm not paid as film critic (or most of the people on this forum) and so I haven't had the privilege to see Dune 2 and it's special effects in advance, but we already saw one Sandworm in the first film, and it didn't move any faster than is described in the books. Something "on wheels" in desert of shifting sands would certainly look odd, but I'd doubt that is the case. His criticisms show that he simply hasn't read the book, and so I was agreeing with @Elckerlyc on that point. It doesn't "bother me," other than that they can dislike the film for a (possibly) accurate depiction of the book. In comparison, The Den of Geek criticisms are much more specific complaints.