Villeneuve's Dune: Part Two (2024)

[Swank]

I was listening to a radio review of the film. The reviewer confused Muad'dib (his name) with Lisan al Gaib, the title of the prophesied holy one. But once it was believed that Paul Muad'dib was that person, he was referred to a Mahdi, his title as the Lisan al Gaib. Which seems confusing until you realize that's pretty much how things go in real life.

And then there's Usal.

 

[Judderman]

I was asking someone in Canada if they were soon going to watch Dune 2. I said it a couple of times but they were not comprehending me. We realized that I was actually talking about "Doon" 2.

 

[Elckerlyc]

I got myself a ticket for next Wednesday.
It must be 10 years or so since my last visit to cinema. Now that my ears have recovered from that last occasion, I think I may risk endangering my eardrums again, if the film is worth seeing. So far I have only read positive reviews.

 

[Swank]

Please remember to turn off all weirding devices prior to the show.

 

[Dave]

And keep the sand out of your ice creams.

 

[msstice]

I was asking someone in Canada if they were soon going to watch Dune 2. I said it a couple of times but they were not comprehending me. We realized that I was actually talking about "Doon" 2.

In Canada they think Dune is a documentary on Burning Man.

 

[Vince W]

Just got back from seeing it. I have mixed feelings about it. I think for non-Dune initiates it works pretty well. Plenty of action and a lot of explanations. And if you've heard that this film is feminist you heard wrong. Villeneuve made all the women in Dune much much weaker than in the book.

 

[BAYLOR]

A fist edition Dune hardcover can be worth up 30,000 dollars?

 

[Harpo]

 

[Dave]

I'm going to see Dune 2 tomorrow. There are a few of those ex-Tweets about a "Dune 2 Experience" doing the rounds, but everyone seems to highly rate the real thing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1763653762281832563

 

[Swank]

Just got back from seeing it. I have mixed feelings about it. I think for non-Dune initiates it works pretty well. Plenty of action and a lot of explanations. And if you've heard that this film is feminist you heard wrong. Villeneuve made all the women in Dune much much weaker than in the book.

I don't think they are weaker. Especially the Freman women, or Irulan.

The film was great, making Dune 1 feel like a prologue.

It is going to be difficult to retain the experience of seeing the film. A lot of the impressions are so immediate that they slip away.


I think they actually improved in some ways on the book, adding some richness where it wasn't. Freman factions, for instance. I really liked what they did with Chani and her piers.


The elusive second sight aspects were handled well, and Alia was adapted in a cunning way.

 

[ctg]

Haven't seen it yet, but space.com review reflect some of your feelings.

In a colossal waste of Academy Award winning talent, Christopher Walken's appearance as the Emperor of the Known Universe is a shamefully brief and bland performance that spans a limited acting spectrum of glum to gloomy. His daughter, Princess Irulan (Florence Pugh), sleepwalks through her underdeveloped scenes with ho-hum precision that makes you wonder why she's in the film at all except to fulfill her own end fate as the Messiah's reluctant bride.

But make no mistake about it, this is Austin Butler's movie and his simmering sociopathic portrayal of the heir to the Harkonnen empire electrifies every scene he appears in, especially a brutal birthday party gladiator match staged in a massive arena, beautifully shot and bleached of all color and complete with the Giedi Prime version of bursting pyrotechnic blobs.

Bardem's Stilgar is rock solid representing the true heart of Arrakis and a charismatic force whenever he appears on screen, as is Josh Brolin as grizzled Gurney Halleck.

'Dune: Part Two' tries to find its pulse in a plodding sci-fi spectacle (review)

Director Denis Villeneuve's sequel is an exhausting exercise in artful Hollywood excess.

www.space.com

Still a frustrating omission for the most part is the minuscule screen time given to the all-important Spacing Guild and its mutated navigators who fold space-time to allow for interstellar travel and commerce by utilizing Dune's greatest asset to move across galaxies instantly. Remember, they were the culprits who teamed up with the Emperor to order the assassination of Paul Atreides in the first place!

But the oddest directorial choice of all is the sneeze-and-you'll-miss-it moment of Paul's unborn telepathic sister Alia (Anya-Taylor Joy), seen as an adult in a cryptic future vision near an ocean. Alia's unfolding story continues in the novels "Dune: Messiah," "Children of Dune," "Hunters of Dune" and "Sandworms of Dune," and here it's simply a minor throwaway scene issuing a vague warning.

Say what you will about David Lynch's ill-fated '80s-era "Dune," the maverick director recognized the inherent weirdness in Herbert's dense work and was not afraid to dig his creative spurs into its literary flanks and add some cool psychedelic theatricality and Grand Guignol flair, an approach Villeneuve obviously shares no affinity for.

Regardless of its glacial pacing and depressing portrayal of a planet in crisis, Villeneuve has made a valiant attempt to penetrate the intricacies of the iconic 1965 novel's eco-politics, convoluted mythology and mysticism, but in the end has only reinforced the notion of its notoriously opaque nature with a cold, distanced effort, but perhaps that's just enough to quench our everlasting "Dune" thirst.

I don't know if it's something to do again with how we all imagine different the words of prose, and we should keep in mind that Villenue saw things in a different light. Just like he did with the Blade Runner 2049, which according to him, "Still keeps him up in the night." So I expect not everyone going to be happy about this but maybe in coming years we are going to see the extended cut with 4+ hour runtime. Some could call it the original cut. We'll see as the film needs to make money.

At the moment of writing, the Dune Part II has 9.0 rating with 117k votes in the IMDB, with almost 1k written reviews. But only 21 1 star writes. So to my eyes the people love it.

 

[ctg]

Important question that the review author doesn't speculate about in the post.

Frank Herbert wrote about getting on them and riding at the back, but he never mentioned the slowing or dismounting. So, how do the Fremen get off from the back of a sand worm? Surely they cannot use the hooks and reverse the path they took to get back up, can they? Or do they run at the tail end and hop off, rather than tumble down the sides? And how does the pilot get off as the last person in the ship?

 

[Dave]

I'm leaving to see it right now, but everyone will see different things in any book, so it is clear that one director's vision will be very different to another's, and while that may square with some fans, it can never make everyone happy all of the time. And that is before you begin to say which director is better from the aspects of technicality and ability. What I find more interesting, is that people were saying how the complex story couldn't possibly be filmed so that people could understand it if they hadn't read the book first. Now, either all these people giving good reviews have read the book (which I very much doubt) or else Villeneuve has achieved what few thought was possible.

 

[Pyan]

Important question that the review author doesn't speculate about in the post.
Frank Herbert wrote about getting on them and riding at the back, but he never mentioned the slowing or dismounting. So, how do the Fremen get off from the back of a sand worm? Surely they cannot use the hooks and reverse the path they took to get back up, can they? Or do they run at the tail end and hop off, rather than tumble down the sides? And how does the pilot get off as the last person in the ship?

@ctg: Herbert does actually cover dismounting:

The troop began working down the worm’s sides, dropping off, blending with the sand beneath their cloaks. Paul marked where Chani dropped. Presently, only he and Stilgar remained.
“First up, last off,” Paul said.
Stilgar nodded, dropped down the side on his hooks, leaped onto the sand. Paul waited until the maker was safely clear of the scatter area, then released
his hooks. This was the tricky moment with a worm not completely exhausted.
Freed of its goads and hooks, the big worm began burrowing into the sand. Paul ran lightly back along its broad surface, judged his moment carefully and leaped off. He landed running, lunged against the slipface of a dune the way he had been taught, and hid himself beneath the cascade of sand over his robe.

Dune, Book 3: The Prophet, Page 387 (NEL pb April 1981)

 

[Swank]

Still a frustrating omission for the most part is the minuscule screen time given to the all-important Spacing Guild and its mutated navigators who fold space-time to allow for interstellar travel and commerce by utilizing Dune's greatest asset to move across galaxies instantly. Remember, they were the culprits who teamed up with the Emperor to order the assassination of Paul Atreides in the first place!

No, they did not! This review seems to not have read Dune, and only have reviewed Dune 1984 - and then assumed that was a faithful adaptation. The plot to kill Paul by the Guild is in Messiah, and that's where the Navigator appears.

 

[Dave]

So, then... I don't have much to say. About the Sandworm speed - the first one seen does go at a pace, and a little faster than I would have had them travel, but it isn't something that I would have commented upon myself. How do you dismount from a Sandworm? Well, you jump off, the same way you got on! I think I do understand what seems to be a critic and fan obsession with Sandworm biology because they are what Dune is all about, but honestly, why no questions about how Ornithopters can fly? Or, what is the chemical composition of Spice? Or, what are the physiological effects of the Water of Spice upon the body? Or, how does an unborn child communicate telepathically from the womb?

Sometimes in SFF one just has to suspend your disbelief and be taken into the story. I mean, how do you build a sophisticated underground complex, a storage for nuclear missiles, without anyone left who could be tortured and tell where it is? (That's an old chestnut that both the Bond villains and Jeff Tracey never explained either.)

This is well worth seeing on a big screen. The visuals are fantastic and beautiful. Although it's only part of a book, this is a good story to tell, with a natural beginning and end. You probably don't even need to have seen part one. Also, while there is action, it isn't one set piece of action after another set piece - which is the usual for films today - and between them you have all the mystic Bene Gesserit stuff and political and genealogical stuff to chew on.

Does the film portray stronger women more than the books? Yes and No. There are some changes to the book. Alia remains an unborn child, except in one dream sequence. Chani isn't pregnant by Paul and she is a warrior with doubts about Paul's alleged destiny. You don't see many other woman as warriors though. Of course, the book and film show that despite nuclear weapons and all of the male breast beating, it is the machinations of a group of mystical women who plot and design the course of history from which no one can escape.

 

[RDArmstrong]

Reading the comments here seem like its at least worth a watch. I wasn't a big fan of the first film. I couldn't suspend my imagination during the most of the scenes.

 

[Swank]

The sandworm speed thing seems to be a complaint that their propulsion doesn't make sense, but the film portrays their movements primarily with their heads in the sand, so given their volume it would be safe to conclude that they are internally propelled - a big sand jet.

 

[Dave]

The sandworm speed thing seems to be a complaint that their propulsion doesn't make sense, but the film portrays their movements primarily with their heads in the sand, so given their volume it would be safe to conclude that they are internally propelled - a big sand jet.

While I'm quite happy to park this as a known unknown myself, there is actually quite a large discussion on Reddit (with YouTube videos) about this - that sand behaves like a liquid when you push air through it - and that internal propulsion or else vibrations along the sandworm body could move it forward. (This doesn't explain where they derive their energy to do so.) There is also a discussion on Reddit that sandworms are silicon-based lifeforms that consume the sand and so abhor water, which I don't think fits with Dune history (How could they have evolved, or were they seeded by the Guild?) And even more about the creation of Spice and drowning of worms. Some of all of this may be taken from the Children of Dune mini-series, but which I haven't seen. It has really has a lot of people agitated and worked up.

All I would say, is that in the scenes with the sand-trout, or larval worms when they were creating Water of Life, the worm that wrapped itself around the priest woman seemed very powerful, and I could imagine that an adult, much larger worm, could probably have enough power.

But as I have said already, pages and pages about sandworms being unfeasible in terms of Mechanics, but nothing about how those gravity-defying vehicles are just hanging around there.