Pug Vs Thomas

[dekket]

Good point Ivaron.

But considering that the only time I remember Macros being truthful was when being questioned directly under the eye of his daughter Miranda, should anyone ever take anything Macros said at face value?
He was a master manipulator, and also being manipulated by the gods of Midkemia.
Surely a Valheru that believes he is less than he once was is a much safer option than a Valheru in full confidence of his powers.

 

[Ivaron]

Good point Ivaron.

But considering that the only time I remember Macros being truthful was when being questioned directly under the eye of his daughter Miranda, should anyone ever take anything Macros said at face value?

Very true. Considering Macros is really dead now (I don't believe he's gonna come back anymore), I would think the last things he said must've been the truth (or at least, what Macros thinks to be the truth). Which is exactly the occasion you mention.

Surely a Valheru that believes he is less than he once was is a much safer option than a Valheru in full confidence of his powers.

Exactly what I was thinking

 

[Conan]

I think this is a silly question, we don't know where the fight takes place, we don't even know the extent of Pug's or Tomas's powers. Yet. Btw just my opinion is Tomas, people seem to forget how quick and powerful Tomas is, but Macros would destroy them all.

 

[Conan]

People are also forgetting the fact that Tomas uses magic, also he has hardly lost any of his power, he got his power back in RoaDK (for a few seconds) then lost some of it, due to the lifestone being destroyed, which Ashen-Shugar was not even attached to, so it doesnt even make sense, (spoiler for RaDL, kinda...) and the way feist has been writing about tomas like he never lost any power (which I think he'll make that so).

 

[spazzed]

Well althought I voted for Tomas, we're all overlooking one very obvious fact that would guarentee Pug victory. That obvious fact is that Pug is cursed to see everyone he loves die before he does! Pug could stand there and do nothing, and Tomas would most likely trip on his sword and impale himself.

Putting aside that though, Tomas would more then likely win. People make the point that pug seperated Macros from almost merging with Sarig, but Sarig is dead, and who do you think killed him? Tomas' lesser kin. It has also been said that he is not as mighty and Ashen was, but we have seen no proof of this. If they were to fight, I believe Tomas would emmit his Valheuric aura over pug to interrupt his focus, and slash him in half. Pug might be able to raise a mystic barrier, but how long would that hold against Tomas' magic and his sword? Not to mention the fact that pug has to cast the majority of his spells, while Tomas merely exerts his will. Tomas most likely is also naturally more resistant to magic, and/or his armor might enhance this.

 

[dekket]

but Sarig is dead, and who do you think killed him? Tomas' lesser kin.

During the Chaos Wars the new gods raged against each other, which was much more devastating than when the Valheru fought against the gods. It was much more likely that a rival deity killed Sarig, rather than the Dragon Host.

 

[Rahl Windsong]

Well first off it would most likely be Tomas who started it, after all the Dragon Lords had terrible tempers. So I would picture the battle going something along these lines.....

Tomas attempts to attack Pug. Pug gets a confused look on his face, then creates some sort of rift, time shift, or shielding to hold Tomas in check until he can figure out what got into him...

Could make for a good book!

 

[Sonshu]

Thomas would have won hands down but the power of the Valheru fades as the books go on and he even says his powers weaken. Thomas says this around the time he commands the gold dragon and says to Pug something like "I could have killed it if it refused me."

Then it is Pug all the way as the power of the Valheru fades and Pug improves more. At the heights of both if they met at full strength I think it would be Thomas in my view based on the first 3 books alone.

 

[daniel111]

this question poses many problems, becasue as far as im aware, the books never reveal what the full extent of either of the pair was. you have to take a number of things into acount. it mentions in a darkness at sethanon that after their war with the Valheru, the gods who before numbered 100, now numbered only 16, 12 minor, and 4 major gods. (it mentions this when Pug and Thomas are searching for Macros in the halls of the dead. For thomas to be of a race that conquered 84 of 100 gods he must have immense power. However later on in the books it mentions that Pugs power outweighed that of Macros's. Again in a darkness at sethanon Macros mentions that he could've stopped the valheru coming into Sethanon, though it would've taken much of his power. Becasue of this i have to give the opinion that Pug would win the fight, as he could just put Thomas in a cage such as he did with the Dreadmaster in the city of forever.

 

[dekket]

I always thought that during the Chaos Wars it was the gods struggles between themselves that was the cause of the casualties, not the Valheru slaying many of them.

 

[darksilence]

In Darkwar saga Tomas tells Gulamendis amongst the mortals only Pug can best me. I didn't get the exact meaning but i understand Tomas has the upperhand from the tell.

 

[Morvai_]

prior to the moment calis released that which was Valheru in the world Tomas was near indestructable, that said in the course of the books Jakkan the demon kicked pugs ass(well technically he outsmarted pug and got him to fry himself),Tomas has never lost a fight so who knows?