[Spoiler] The Blackfish

[hedgeknight]

When the series ends, Brynden will be the lord of Riverrun and Jaime will be the Lord Commander of the Wall (so says a friend of mind JohnSnow - and I agree with him.) The Blackfish is a slippery fellow and will recruit the river lords to his cause. (I think I said this before earlier, but just jumped in w/o reading all three pages. Heh.)
-g-

 

[Dolorous Edd]

When the series ends, Brynden will be the lord of Riverrun and Jaime will be the Lord Commander of the Wall (so says a friend of mind JohnSnow - and I agree with him.) The Blackfish is a slippery fellow and will recruit the river lords to his cause. (I think I said this before earlier, but just jumped in w/o reading all three pages. Heh.)
-g-

But what about Jon? What's happened to him in this future of yours?

 

[cacotopos]

why can't Jeyne still be in Riverrun? Brynden escapes in the river, Jeyne and some loyal helpers pretend to be traders/farmers/whatever and then leave, after trade etc. is allowed to go on like normal. Then they meet with the Blackfish at some pre-determined destination?

I don't know how much I believe this...
Jus' sayin'

 

[hedgeknight]

According to GRRM, there is no place for a ******* as a Lord...but my friend (JohnSnow) have a theory that Jon may end up as one of the three husbands to Daeny Targaryen. Whoop! Wouldn't that be something???
-g-

 

[Dolorous Edd]

Ah, O.K. that old chestnut. I expect he will be. But i still don't think he's a *******, i still reckon if he is rhaegar's son he took Lyana as a second wife, making him legitimate.

 

[hedgeknight]

Yep - that could be the case too. Ah, the suspense! Can you hear us down here in the trenches, Mr. Martin??? We gotta know! So get on it and give us book five!
BOOK FIVE! BOOK FIVE! BOOK FIVE!
-g-

 

[Raven]

why can't Jeyne still be in Riverrun? Brynden escapes in the river, Jeyne and some loyal helpers pretend to be traders/farmers/whatever and then leave, after trade etc. is allowed to go on like normal. Then they meet with the Blackfish at some pre-determined destination?

I don't know how much I believe this...
Jus' sayin'

Seems incredibly risky. Jeyne is going to stay in Riverrun with all the Lannister troops and hope she isn't recognised? Then make her own way through Lannister lands to meet up with the BF? Besides, the BF threw all the spare mouths out, and Jaime knows this. There aren't any traders or farmers to hide amongst.

 

[cacotopos]

Seems incredibly risky. Jeyne is going to stay in Riverrun with all the Lannister troops and hope she isn't recognised? Then make her own way through Lannister lands to meet up with the BF? Besides, the BF threw all the spare mouths out, and Jaime knows this. There aren't any traders or farmers to hide amongst.

Good point, well made. I just thought if there was any way it could possibly happen, this seemed likeliest to me, but i'm starting to feel there weren't no switcheroo afterall

 

[Tyranus]

I like how everyone expects something great is going to happen with Jon, but what if GRRM throws another one of those curves and just keeps him as the ******* lord of the Wall.

 

[Culhwch]

But that is a great calling, I would say....

 

[JohnSnow]

I like how everyone expects something great is going to happen with Jon, but what if GRRM throws another one of those curves and just keeps him as the ******* lord of the Wall.

I just think that by the end of the story that the wallis going to be worthless. The whole thing starts off with the Others (and Ser Waymer, Will and Gared) and an author like GRRM is not going to have them play an insignificant role. This means that at some point the will most likely be eliminated. The Wildlings are already being taken care of . Without those two forces the Wall has less importance in the realm, therefore less likely Jon will be commander. Just my thinking.

Plus, as some people have suggested elsewhere, Jon may be of royal blood if Eddard did the deed with one of the Targaryans or as I have thought about on occasion, that Jon is not Eddard's son at all, but Brandon Stark's son before he was killed.

As someone else said... just thinkin'

js

 

[cymric]

Jon is not going to remain commander of the wall at the end of it all. Dany will come back set the kingdom to rights and Jon will be set free of his of his oath by the old gods (the gods wood tree). The lord commander afterwords will be jaime as he will have nowwhere to go.

 

[Boaz]

DE, could Rhaegar have legally taken a second wife? The only case of polygamy in the Seven Kingdoms that I recall is that of Aegon the Conqueror and his two wives (sisters).

Now everyone who knew Rhaegar pretty much says that he was a precise person. To create TPTWP, Rhaegar would have needed to have been married to TPTWP's mother. I just wonder if Rhaegar did not have his marriage with Elia dissolved and that the septons, Rhaegar, and Elia all died before anyone else knew.

Back to the Blackfish, does anyone have any guesses as to the source of the division between Hoster and Brynden?

 

[Sword of the Morning]

Back to the Blackfish, does anyone have any guesses as to the source of the division between Hoster and Brynden?

I think the division was during Robert's rebellion. I'll take a stab at this, Hoster wanted to join/ joined the rebellion after Brandon Stark was killed and Brynden wanted to stay loyal.

 

[Raven]

Boaz: Hoster arranged a marriage for Brynden, and Brynden refused the match. Hoster insisted, they fell out, Brynden left. This must have been after the Rebellion, because Brynden went to Lysa in the Vale.

As for other Targ polygamists and polyandrists, we're told there were some. Aegon the Unworthy comes to mind, though not all his wives were simultaneous. The custom seems to date to before the Conquest, and certainly hasn't been practised for a hundred years or more.

 

[Culhwch]

Now everyone who knew Rhaegar pretty much says that he was a precise person. To create TPTWP, Rhaegar would have needed to have been married to TPTWP's mother. I just wonder if Rhaegar did not have his marriage with Elia dissolved and that the septons, Rhaegar, and Elia all died before anyone else knew.

I don't really follow this. Marriage vows can be anulled in certain circumstances, but I don't think, 'I need to marry this other chick because we're gonna have a kid that will save the world,' would really cut it. Besides, it would have had to have been before Rhaegar rode off to war (or rode off for the last time to the Trident, in any case), and it would have been some time after that (weeks, months, possibly years) that Elia, the tots, and - luckily - the presiding septon met their fate in King's Landing. On top of which, why would Elia still have been in the Red Keep if she had been cast aside. The kids would have stayed, sure, but the spurned Elia? Doubt it very much....

 

[Boaz]

Cully, all I'm saying is that neither Gendry nor Edric are princes, Mya, Barra, and Bella are not princesses. For Rhaegar's son to be The Prince That Was Promised he'd need to be a legitimate son. On the other hand Rhaegar could have legitimized TPTWP upon Rhaegar's ascension to the Iron Throne.

And I'm not saying my theory makes any real sense, I don't believe in it myself. I'm just putting forth ideas and possibilites... you know, thinking out loud.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

I just think that by the end of the story that the wallis going to be worthless. The whole thing starts off with the Others (and Ser Waymer, Will and Gared) and an author like GRRM is not going to have them play an insignificant role. This means that at some point the will most likely be eliminated. The Wildlings are already being taken care of . Without those two forces the Wall has less importance in the realm, therefore less likely Jon will be commander. Just my thinking.

Plus, as some people have suggested elsewhere, Jon may be of royal blood if Eddard did the deed with one of the Targaryans or as I have thought about on occasion, that Jon is not Eddard's son at all, but Brandon Stark's son before he was killed.

As someone else said... just thinkin'

js

I've noticed a trend in people's thinking about the Wall and the war that will obviously happen between the Others and the humans. Everyone thinks that this is it, the big one, the last war between them. Well, who's to say that's true? They thought the same before, that the Others were gone, and are suddenly surprised (and disbelieving, in many cases) to find that they have returned.

There have been several references to time revolving back around to meet itself, moving in circles, etc. The metaphor of a dragon biting its tail was used (and is also one family's standard). We all wonder who Azhor Ahai reborn will be, and we're pretty sure that Dany is TPTWP. Is she the first PTWP? Or is she simply a reincarnation, another minute in the circle of time?

All I'm saying is, even if the Wall is destroyed, the Others defeated, and the Wildlings reinstated into the kingdoms, it would certainly be a stupid move on the part of the humans to believe that they could completely wash their hands of it all. The Wall will need to be rebuilt and manned. If the Others were defeated and faded away before, they can certainly do it again.

 

[hedgeknight]

There will be no need to rebuild the Wall once the Others are destroyed either by dragonfire or the fire of Rhyllor (sp?). At the end of the series, the Others will be no more and the air will once again be filled with the songs of dragons. (cheesy rip off, I know)
-g-

 

[Jinglehopper]

I just want to pipe in about the differing descriptions of Jeyne Westerling. Cat's point of view (a proud mother) and Jaime's (a sad man whose only love is an incestuous one) would probably differ greatly and it's not necessarily an oversight by Martin, but an excellent detail.

Also maybe I missed something, but where does it say that Ms. Westerling was actually pregnant? Or are we going on the small chance that Robb's heir may exist in her womb?

About Blackfish, I don't think a Tully would try to pull the impostor trick (plus Martin's already used it too many times with Bran and Arya.) My vote is that he's mustering support amongst the still-loyal river lords.