Foreshadowing in ASOIAF

[Boaz]

The only writings of GRRM that I've read are AGOT, ACOK, ASOS, and AFFC. So I cannot compare ASOIAF to his greater body of work, but there seems to be a lot of foreshadowing.

The first is the dead direwolf. Martin basically announces that this will be his modus operandi with the freebie of Robert being the death of Ned.

There has been some discussion of this on the forums, but not a thread of foreshadowing. Of course, the foreshadowing I see may just be called speculation... but I'd really like to discuss patterns in families, behavior, history, and prophecies.

For instance, Dany seems to live a life of heartbreak and it's been prophecied that she'll be betrayed three times. Can we figure out who the next betrayal will come from by looking at her past or her family history?

Also, we knew that the Lannister brothers were very close, Tyrion's life might be seen as forshadowing Jaime's life. Tyrion was captured first, then Jaime. Tyrion was disfigured first, then Jaime. Tyrion was betrayed in love, then Jaime. What's up next? Well, Tyrion murdered his lover and father, who will Jaime murder?

The obvious foreshadowing of prophecies and dreams have been discussed. Let's try and talk about the more obscure connections in the story.

For example, Rickard Stark (Ned's father) went to King's Landing and was betrayed and murdered by the king, his eldest son (Brandon) was murdered, his next son (Ned) escaped to be a hero, his daughter (Lyanna) was forcibly taken by an obsessed man, and his youngest son (Benjen) disappeared. Compare that to Ned's life. Ned went to King's Landing and was betrayed and murdered by the king, Robb (his eldest son) was murdered, Bran (his next son) seems destined to become a magical hero, Sansa (his daughter) was forcibly taken by an obsessed man, and Rickon (his youngest son) has disappeared.

Also, Hoster and Brynden Tully's last words were in anger... they never reconciled. Hoster's daughter's Catelyn and Lysa's last words were in anger... they never reconciled. Cat's daughter's Sansa and Arya's last words were in anger... will they be reconciled?

 

[YOSSARIAN]

These are some interesting parallels you mention Boaz. You can definitely make a case that fates of two generations of Starks are linked by more than coincidence. Let's hope that the younger Starks have their vengeance! I've been wondering about the similarities of Bran and Euron Crow's Eye. Both were seriously injured while young. Both had the vision/dream of falling and being told to fly by the crow. Euron was exiled by Balon Greyjoy and traveled to an ancient land of mystery and magic (Valyria); Bran was essentially exiled by Balon's son and is currently travelling through the equally ancient land beyond the Wall. Will Bran be the anti-Euron?

 

[JohnSnow]

The thing about Martin that stands out is his willingness to throw the same pitch over and over, and then without warning throw something different. He feeds us on simple comparisons, coincidences, and foreshadowings. In the end some will play out but there will be a few to shake things up.

Those are interesting points. I do not think Jaime will murder Cersei, it would be interesting. And you can make the case with how Martin continually had Jaime thinking of Moonboy poking away at his sister! You are right on with the Starks though. They have been created to be solid and straightforward. In essence the Starks are an extremely simple family, what you see is what you get. So their fates shoudl most assuredly follow their ancestors. The Lannisters however are far more interesting and difficult to predict, however we are running out of Lannister characters!

As far as Sansa and Arya reconciling....good point, but IMHO who cares. Sansa is nothing more than a wannabe princes Catelyn (no questions about how I feel about Cat!). The sooner she dies the better. As far as I am concerned she is number one on the list for a good fonging after lying for Joffrey and betraying her fathers plans. OFF WITH HER HEAD!
I have a feeling that Arya may want to do that after she finds out that Sansa is the reason all hell broke loose back in aGoT.

Arya, Danearys, Jon Snow, Tyrion, and possibly Jaime (after reading aFfC) is where the story is headed. What is/are the circumstances / foreshadowing that brings them together?

By the way Boaz, if you haven't read Sandkings (short story) it is well worth the time invested. A little gory and more or less it is science fiction, but it is a quick, good read!

snow

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

I know people have already discussed the significance of the direwolves before, but perhaps they represent a bit of foreshadowing themselves?

Jon Snow and Ghost are both pretty much loners, especially after Jon becomes the Commander of the Wall. They're outcasts from the rest of their pack, yet they are still connected to them in some ways. Ghost is silent and strong, and Jon is learning to be so.

Robb and Grey Wind were both strong, fierce, and reckless.

Arya's Nymeria has been cast aside to wander on her own. Yet instead of staying solitary, she gathered a huge pack that has been ravaging the kingdom. Could this be a bit of foreshadowing? Will Arya gather an army of her own?

Sansa and Lady were both delicate, dainty, and well-behaved. Hardly wolfish behavior, if you ask me. We all know what happened to Lady- will Sansa follow the same road, if she continues to act as though she is not a wolf?

Bran and Summer are both smaller, but they are smarter than the others. Likewise, they are more attuned to each other than any other child has been with his/her wolf. Does this mean that Bran will lead the North? He has allowed the North to become a part of him, through his wolf.

Rickon and Shaggydog - there are many paths they can take. If Osha cannot instill some calm in them, they're pretty much doomed to be savages. It has always interested me that such a tiny boy can control such a large, strong wolf. Through Shaggy, Rickon has more power than his childish mind can handle. Will he turn into trouble for the rest of the Starks?

 

[YOSSARIAN]

I worry about Sansa. She seems to be doing alright now-but her wolf is dead...Rickon is kind of a wild card. All we've seen is a hot-headed little boy, and he is so young he may not fully understand all that has happened, so his future actions are very difficult to predict.

 

[JohnSnow]

Grey wind is still alive correct??

If so maybe Sansa will be reunited with her brothers wolf at some major turning point in her life. I assume at some point she needs to run into dear old mom....

 

[rudycrab]

I thought grey wind got his head cut off and put on Robb's body

 

[nixie]

I thought Grey Wind had been killed at the red wedding but could be completely wrong...I normally am.
Mind you is anyone 100% certain that it was Lady, Ned beheaded?

 

[Adasunshine]

rudycrab's right

It's detailed in the text somewhere (so helpful I know). It's in the chapter where we first meet Lady Stoneheart in Book 3 Part II Blood & Gold

xx

 

[Adasunshine]

As for Lady, it's certain. Her bones were sent back to Winterfell where the other direwolves could sense her and mourned for days, just howling after it had happened, the rogue direwolf with a pack (if that's what your wondering about) I think is Nymeria, Arya's wolf.

xx

 

[JohnSnow]

Must say D#@N it!!!!!! You are right. Totally forgot about that.

It's okay I am going to sit in the corner with my dunce cap!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Boaz]

AU, good thoughts on Lady and Nymeria enlightening us on Sansa's and Arya's futures. Nymeria's actions got Lady killed... hmmmmmm.

JohnSnow, never heard of Sandkings.

 

[JohnSnow]

It was a short story in a couple different collections. If I track down a copy I will send anybody one. It was my first reading of Martin. It was my first contact with gory, realistic characters with serious issues. Most of the other books, stories, etc.. I had read where not of the same variety.

snow

 

[Boaz]

I'm still thinking about the connections between the Starks and their Direwolves and how the lives of the wolves foreshadow the lives of their masters.

The female Direwolf is slain by a male Stag (perhaps the genders are not relevant). Would a Stag attack a wolf? No, unless the male Stag was in rut (a full blown testosterone high for mating season). Well, Robert Baratheon seemed to be in perpetual rut. The Direwolf probably attacked the Stag and died for it. Catelyn, the wife of Eddard, opened hostilites by kidnapping Robert Baratheon's brother in-law... and she ultimately died for it.

The five normal pups chased off the abnormal pup. Jon, not a product of the Ned and Cat union, was sent to The Wall.

Grey Wind lost his fear of soldiers after killing so many of them, but in the end they cornered and killed him. Robb lost his fear of nobles after defeating so many of them, but in the end the Freys and the Boltons killed him.

Nymeria was a restless pup. She attacked Prince Joffrey in response to his treatment of Mycah. Lady, who did not move to protect an innocent boy, was killed for Nymeria's actions. Arya is a restless child. She joined in on the attack on Joff and humiliated him by throwing his sword into the river. Sansa sided with Joffrey in the tale of this incident, but still was pained deeply. Will Arya do something that Sansa must pay for with her life?

Since Lady is dead, Sansa has no direction. She just goes where others tell her to go.

Nymeria is now a renegade wolf. She has gathered a tremendous pack to her and she kills at will. Arya is also a renegade. She's killed men and she is in training to become a great killer. Has Arya found her new pack? The riverlands live in fear of Nymeria, though they do not know her name... will the realm live in fear of Arya, a faceless woman?

Ghost suffered a terrible injury from the eagle and then Jon did too.

Summer wants to run, fight, kill, eat, and love... which are all the things that Bran wants to do.

Shaggydog has been abandoned by all of his litter... and he's mean. Rickon has been abandoned by his family... and he's incredibly bitter.

 

[Brian G Turner]

The first chapter, when they find the Direwolf pups, was certainly rich in symbolism and offered us a foreshadowing of the death of Ned and Robert.

For the later connections between the children and direwolves, though - I would personally see it less as an issue of foreshadowing, as much as that the direwolves themselves and the children are inextricably linked - they are effectively a shared conscious experience, so it's inevitable that the direwolves will very much reflect the children's own personalities.

2c.

 

[foxtrot023]

The first chapter, when they find the Direwolf pups, was certainly rich in symbolism and offered us a foreshadowing of the death of Ned and Robert.

For the later connections between the children and direwolves, though - I would personally see it less as an issue of foreshadowing, as much as that the direwolves themselves and the children are inextricably linked - they are effectively a shared conscious experience, so it's inevitable that the direwolves will very much reflect the children's own personalities.

2c.

True, and they also seem to share their fate i.e. Nymeria- Arya, both gone wild, Snow and Ghost, both the outcasts, Robb and Grey Wind, both dead-

 

[Tyranus]

Well dead is a generalization, to be specific they were both beheaded.

 

[Boaz]

In Tyrion's first POV in AGOT, page 91 of my paperback, the following exchange takes place between Tyrion and Jaime as they discuss Bran and his recent accident.

"He could end his torment," Jaime said. "I would, if it were my son. It would be a mercy."
"I advise against putting that suggestion to Lord Eddard, sweet brother," Tyrion said. "He should not take it kindly."
"Even if the boy does live, he will be a cripple. Worse than a cripple. A grotesque. Give me a good clean death."
Tyrion replied with a shrug that accentuated the twist of his shoulders. "Speaking for the grotesques," he said, "I beg to differ. Death is so terribly final, while life is full of possibilities."
Jaime smiled. "You are a perverse little imp, aren't you?"
"Oh, yes," Tyrion admitted. "I hope the boy does wake, I would be most interested to hear what he might have to say."
His brother's smile curdled like sour milk. "Tyrion, my sweet brother, he said darkly, "there are times when you give me cause to wonder whose side you are on."

Four things struck me from this exchange.

First, I should have seen that Jaime was implying that he had a son.

Second, Tyrion knew about Jaime's sons and so was not fazed by the comment.

Third, Jaime never wants to be crippled. He abhors the thought of being crippled. Martin set Jaime up to be introduced to Vargo Hoat.

Fourth, even Jaime doubts Tyion's loyalties before the fighting even begins. Who will Tyrion ultimately side with?

 

[shugahsveet]

Oh, those direwolves. They have the natures of their masters and mistresses. They were sent to the Starks by the gods of the north. And if that is true, Ned thinks, then what had he done by killing Lady. So he dies horribly and his family scatters. I just get this weird feeling that if you kill one of them you're in big trouble. I want to see how the Freys turn out because I don't think it was too smart to butcher Grey Wind like that. I have a feeling they're going to feel the wrath of the gods, too.

 

[red_temple]

I want to see how the Freys turn out because I don't think it was too smart to butcher Grey Wind like that. I have a feeling they're going to feel the wrath of the gods, too.

I think they may already be feeling some wrath with Lady Stoneheart running around and stringing up anything that even smells like a Frey.