Foreshadowing in ASOIAF

[Dolorous Nate]

For instance, Dany seems to live a life of heartbreak and it's been prophecied that she'll be betrayed three times. Can we figure out who the next betrayal will come from by looking at her past or her family history?

Also, we knew that the Lannister brothers were very close, Tyrion's life might be seen as forshadowing Jaime's life. Tyrion was captured first, then Jaime. Tyrion was disfigured first, then Jaime. Tyrion was betrayed in love, then Jaime. What's up next? Well, Tyrion murdered his lover and father, who will Jaime murder?

The obvious foreshadowing of prophecies and dreams have been discussed. Let's try and talk about the more obscure connections in the story.

For example, Rickard Stark (Ned's father) went to King's Landing and was betrayed and murdered by the king, his eldest son (Brandon) was murdered, his next son (Ned) escaped to be a hero, his daughter (Lyanna) was forcibly taken by an obsessed man, and his youngest son (Benjen) disappeared. Compare that to Ned's life. Ned went to King's Landing and was betrayed and murdered by the king, Robb (his eldest son) was murdered, Bran (his next son) seems destined to become a magical hero, Sansa (his daughter) was forcibly taken by an obsessed man, and Rickon (his youngest son) has disappeared.

Also, Hoster and Brynden Tully's last words were in anger... they never reconciled. Hoster's daughter's Catelyn and Lysa's last words were in anger... they never reconciled. Cat's daughter's Sansa and Arya's last words were in anger... will they be reconciled?

Just how much of this series is completely mapped out in GRRM's warren of a mind? The information contained in this quote from Boaz gave me a big "whoa" moment. I have read the series twice with an earnest attention to detail and failed to pick up these themes (admittedly, I am not the sharpest sword in the armory). Thinking of all these correllations has me envisioning GRRM storyboarding the entire series from beginning to ending on his wall at home, and then just fleshing it out POV by POV.

 

[Boaz]

Yeah, I wonder if GRRM's study looks like the FBI's war room in their fight against the Mafia.

Are you sure I posted that? I don't remember it... and it actually looks like I made some real connections. But what the heck, they could all be red herrings anyway.

By the way... Tyrion could become one of the heads. I think he's Dany's older, *******, half brother. He could become Tyraen Targaryen... and be tricked into opening the city gates (like his father, Aerys) and end up being murdered by Jaime, the Kingslayer.

Hmmmm... that last paragraph seems more hallucinatory than probable...

 

[Lofwyr]

I think all the foreshadowing you pointed out is good stuff Boaz. Perhaps somewhat out of character?

In all seriousness though, what about the perspective that we're witnessing the first major divergence in a cycle. The past influences the present and so characters are doomed to repeat patterns, but we're involved at a moment when there will be actual change. So we might see the Tully cycle of siblings parting in anger -> death get broken with Sansa/Arya (i tend to think they'll bump heads at least once before one or both die). We might see other divergences at the end-points of similar events...that the current generation of Starks is oddly mirroring the last might hold true right up until the last novel, when GRRM goes and throws in a wrench that changes it (this one i have no idea on...).

Just thinking that a theme through his novels so far has been that people often don't learn and wind up paying for it. Would be reasonable to think that theme will get stood on its head come the end of the series.

 

[TK-421]

IWe might see other divergences at the end-points of similar events...that the current generation of Starks is oddly mirroring the last might hold true right up until the last novel, when GRRM goes and throws in a wrench that changes it (this one i have no idea on...).

So, are you suggesting that Robb's faith and death mirrors Brandon Stark, Ned's older brother who was burned alive by Aerys? Both were see as the future of House Stark and died horrible deaths. Who would be Lyanna? Sansa? Who represent duty and honour-bound Ned? Bran? The problem are the other two wildcard siblings: Arya and Rickon.

Jon does not really count.

 

[Lofwyr]

So, are you suggesting that Robb's faith and death mirrors Brandon Stark, Ned's older brother who was burned alive by Aerys? Both were see as the future of House Stark and died horrible deaths. Who would be Lyanna? Sansa? Who represent duty and honour-bound Ned? Bran? The problem are the other two wildcard siblings: Arya and Rickon.

Jon does not really count.

I was commenting on Boaz's post. Seems he had Robb=Brandon, Sansa=Lyanna (kidnapped by an obssessed man - Littlefinger) Bran=the Son that seems destined for Heroics.

 

[TK-421]

Yes, indeed Lofwyr. However, where would Arya and Rickon fit in?

I see parallels also being made being Bran Stark and Bran the Builder.

 

[No One]

And the other brother, the ugly one, looked like a Kinslayer.

Another passage hit me in Jon's second chapter in AGOT. This is the one where he says goodbye to Bran, Robb and Arya. After giving Needle to Arya she says:
"I wish you were coming with us"

Jon replies:
"Different roads sometimes lead to the same castle. Who knows."

If that wasn't possibly foreshadowing, then I'll eat the book. Question is, what castle could it be where Jon and Arya would be reunited. Winterfell? Or better yet the Red Keep? I always said a ******* would sit on the Iron Throne and he would need his family around him (and an assassin).

Not sure about a ******* on the throne...

Wasn't Rhaegar married to Elia when he had his fling with Lyanna? So I'm thinking Jon is still technically a *******. Then again, with Westeros in a terrible state, and sure to get worse under an armed church, the people would probably accept anyone's claim. After all, Robert Baratheon had no real claim to the throne.

In any case, remember that, according to Melisande, Stannis will sit the Iron Throne. Of course, she can't be specific and doesn't say under what terms or for how long, or if he's even a king when he does, but it seems to me that Stannis will be a major factor in the outcome of whoever does end up on the throne.

Another point on the Jon/Arya theme is Arya's wishing to see Jon again so he can "call her little sister and muss her hair."

It's a thought that's recurred consistently with Arya and I've never doubted that it would mean something significant - something either very sweet or very tragic. I'm thinking tragic.

 

[Boaz]

It's month shy of the twenty-sixth anniversary of the publication of A Game of Thrones... and when re-reading, I wonder if I am projecting my conceptions upon the text or if I actually see new aspects of foreshadowing in the story. I wonder if GRRM actually intended certain plot developments or if his inclusion of details and juxtaposition of characters allows him to have the option to make certain events appear as if they had been foreshadowed.

Yesterday, I reread Catelyn's second chapter in AGOT wherein Maester Luwin brought her a secret message from Lysa and then Catelyn and Eddard planned the future of House Stark. Specifically, when Catelyn declared that Jon must leave Winterfell, Eddard flared up.... until Luwin said that Benjen and Jon desired Jon to join the NW. Eddard was unsure...

"A hard sacrifice," Maester Luwin agreed. "Yet these are hard times, my lord. His road is no crueler than yours or your lady's."

Let's compare these roads. Luwin was not a prophet, he was merely speaking of good-byes, geographical distance between loved ones, and performing duties because of oaths. And although, Eddard, Catelyn, and Jon all traveled far from Winterfell and experienced heartaches they have even more in common.

None returned to Winterfell.

Eddard mourned Robert. Catelyn mourned Eddard, Bran, Rickon, and Robb. Jon mourned Eddard, Bran, Rickon, Robb, and Ygritte.

All had to deal with angry and martial females... Eddard with Arya, Catelyn with Brienne, and Jon with Ygritte.

Eddard was accused of Robert and Cersei for defying Robert. Eddard was accused of treason to steal Joffrey's crown, to which he confessed in order to save Sansa and Arya. He was promised safety, but was beheaded, with his own sword, by Ilyn Payne.

Catelyn was accused of treason for abducting Tyrion. Catelyn was accused of treason for Renly's murder. Catelyn was actually guilty of treason, releasing Jaime in order to save Sansa and Arya. She was promised safety at the Twins, but had her throat cut by Raymund Frey.

Jon was judged by the Old Bear to not have committed treason on his midnight ride. Jon was judged not to have committed treason (killing Qhorin, aiding Mance, and sleeping with Ygritte) by the NW electing him Lord Commander, yet his loyalty was constantly questioned by Alliser Thorne, Janos Slynt, Othell Yarwyck, Clydas, et al. He finally committed treason when he quit his office and asked Wildlings, King's Men, and NW to join his expedition to Winterfell in order to save Arya. He was cut down by his own swords.... the sworn brothers of the NW.

Was Jon's road crueler than Eddard's or Catelyn's? This is all I really wanted to post regarding what I read yesterday... but I have one other thought... a crackpot theory...

Catelyn was resurrected by Beric Dondarrion. Why he did this I'll never know. Catelyn has since been waging a private war on the Lannisters.

Let me say here that I have not watched the show beyond the fifth season... and I'd like to respect the purity of the story for readers who have not watched the shows final seasons.

Anyway, Jon has been stabbed multiple times by Othell's knives and his last thoughts are of Ghost, if I recall correctly. ADWD opens with Varamyr's POV describing his spirit entering Old One-Eye upon his death. I assume Jon's spirit will enter Ghost... this has been discussed for years... and that Melisandre can put Jon's spirit back into his body in order for him to wage his private war upon the Boltons.

So.... if Catelyn has survived her death and if we assume Jon will survive his death and their cruel roads are so similar, then can we postulate that Eddard has been or will be resurrected? In ASOS, Catelyn ordered the Silent Sisters and some of Eddard's men to escort his bones from Riverrun to Winterfell. In ADWD, Barbrey Dustin claimed that Eddard's body had not yet emerged from the Neck and that she would confiscate it for her own vengeance when it does. Because of the Greyjoy's hold on Moat Cailin, no one could travel through the Neck. The Neck is controlled by Howland Reed, Eddard's best friend. Howland probably has Eddard's body. Can he resurrect it? Probably not... nor does he have any connection to R'hllor. I presume all flesh had been stripped from Eddard's bones, so would a resurrection work anyway? Mayhaps I am stretching the connections of Eddard, Catelyn, and Jon in Luwin's comment... but mayhaps we should not be surpised if Eddard returns.

 

[Judderman]

Long live King Eddard!

That is brilliant linkage. There may be an issue of what happened with his head.