For the Ladies (Of ASoIaf, not this forum!)

[hedgeknight]

I like Meera - she's kinda hot for a frog gigger.
-g-

 

[hedgeknight]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Somebody in another thread called Brienne a whiner, for chrissakes. First of all, Brienne doesn't complain to anyone about anything. She shoulders her own load without a single word of complaint, and strives to do the right thing. The only complaints she has, she keeps to herself. Secondly, out of anyone in the story, Brienne has as much right- no, more of a right- to complain than pretty much all of the characters. Life has been handing her lemons since day one, and that girl has swallowed her pride and made lemonade, dammit.

AMEN, "sister" Underfoot!
-g-

 

[JohnSnow]

Somebody in another thread called Brienne a whiner, for chrissakes. First of all, Brienne doesn't complain to anyone about anything. She shoulders her own load without a single word of complaint, and strives to do the right thing. The only complaints she has, she keeps to herself. Secondly, out of anyone in the story, Brienne has as much right- no, more of a right- to complain than pretty much all of the characters. Life has been handing her lemons since day one, and that girl has swallowed her pride and made lemonade, dammit.

Anyone who calls Brienne a whiner should be fonged within an inch of their life. The poor girl has done nothing but forge ahead through unmatched adversity and bad luck. I have to say that Brienne is only goint to get uglier and more abused throughout the story (sorry Hedgeknight) thus making her a true champion/savior figure towards the end of the series. How hard will it be to not root for her. The only evident fault of hers is falling for men who have serious issues - Renly and Jaime - but endow her with serious responsibilities - Rainbow guard and finding Sansa. Funny how the Rainbow guard turned out to be a waste of time, I wonder if the search for Sansa will turn out the same?

 

[rudycrab]

Personally, I find Dany boring. I am tried of reading about how great her family used to be and "waking the dragon". Their mad king got what was coming to him (Kingslaying rocks) and the "last dragon" got tooled by Robert. I hope the Ironmen blow their horn and steal her dragon babies. But that won't happen.

Brienne and Ahsa both are cool becuase they can stand up to men but Brienne desplays intelligence beyond scheming by questioning her own actions and having desires beyond ruling. Plus she isn't a hoochie mama.

Cersei would have been better is she wasn't so bad at ruling. What ruler would arm religous fanatics and think it was a great move? But I still lover her POV because tis fun to watch her screw up.

I really hope Ayra isn't blind forever because a powerful blind kung fu master Ayra would be kinda cheesy but still make me happier than her lossing all her ability to fight

Sansa needs to hurry up and outsmart Littlefinger or she will be pathetic and boring.

Finally, Cat is the greatest.

 

[JohnSnow]

Sansa needs to hurry up and outsmart Littlefinger or she will be pathetic and boring.

Finally, Cat is the greatest.

Two things:

Sansa will end up be Petyr's little love toy - book it. Guy is a freak and Sansa is a pansy.

Second - you just had to go there did'nt you. The new thread will be up shortly!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[the_faery_queen]

in find dany boring. i want her eaten. i dislike her a LOT! shes the only one i do actually hate.

and cersi broke free of the medieval/patriarchal mould. the, you must marry and have kids and that's all your for, thing. cos tho she did marry AND have kids, they weren't her husbands kids. she also got rid of him. so i think she is definetly not the ideal woman as the martin world would want her to be. i dont' want her to suffer. poor cersi! i think she suffered enough. but yes yes, i am alone in that. cat having a brother, hmm, well that probably would still be annoying for her, to see him get stuff, but she had a sister, so she at least had some female to turn to. cersi didn't really have that. i always felt she was kinda lonely, the lowly female with no one to turn to. besides which, it must be more frustating to have a twin do better, than a brother. twins are closer to you, part of you, its just a chance that she wasn't male as well.

brianna is maybe one of the few noble, nonselfish people in that world. so i dunno how long she will last. i think her disfiguredness will make her work out even better with jamie, cos he's disfigured too! (should that happen. cos i haven't read feast of crows so am only going by what i heard!) and if they had done that fall for each other thing, it would show a good side to jamie if he lokos beyond it. which i think he probably would. and she deserves him too. (tho cersi also deserves to be happy. yes yes, bad woman, yes yes, but she's a product of what she was made, i don't blame her for what she's done) but brianna does desever happiness for all the crap she's had to put up with. and jamie deserves a woman who wont' treat him like poop, and i think brianna will definetly do that for him. she's a protector, i think she would fight for anyone she cares about, unlike cersi who would drop them when they got in her way.

go brianna underrated character she is. at least so far.

 

[Adasunshine]

Cersei's suffered? Suffered enough my foot! She's a vindictive, manipulative, narcissistic, power-hungry, paranoid, incestuous, bad-tempered, promiscuous in a bad way, kind of loving but ultimately lousy mother, evil, self-absorbed, know-it-all, better than thou evil wench. Just plain nasty.

I hope she gets ripped to shreds by the sparrows after having revealed all her sins and seedy-deals to the rest of King's Landing - on the steps of the Sept (where Ned was beheaded) and being punished by her royal subjects!

She also should receive a bit of Oathkeeper's mercy, Sir Ilyn Payne or Jaime would be perfect executioners but maybe that's even a little harsh for me!

I just can't find any sympathy for the woman. She is not a product of her upbringing, she has always been a vindictive, know-it-all cow, this has been made clear. She's clearly a woman in what is very much a man's world and a not so smart woman at that, too self-absorbed to take in what is really going on around her to be a good leader.

Sorry to rant, just can't see how anyone finds sympathy for this woman.

xx

 

[the_faery_queen]

because she DID suffer. her father married her off to a man who cheated on her. her father praised her twin brother over her and made her fully aware that she is nothing but a brood mare. even when her husband died he wanted to marry her off again, as though she wasn't a grown woman allowed to make choices. her husband, the one she was froced to wed, also cheated on her.

and on top of that she had to watch her twin, part of her self, being treated completely differently, simply for being male. and i can totally sympathise with how crap that must have made her feel. how worthless. and totally understand why she was desperate to have power and some control over her onw life.

and sorry to rant to! but tho she did bad stuff, she was treated badly herself. she't no saint, but she is a result of her father.

 

[Adasunshine]

It's tempting to open up a bloomin Cersei thread - she seems to be sneaking into all the others out there.

Interesting character but ultimately hateful.

xx

 

[the_faery_queen]

sorry. i do ge a bit cersi mad. shes interesting, yes, and hateful, i can see why people feel that. but i dont'. i think other people have done far worse and get away with it because they are charasmatic. and i can't balem her for not being charasmatic!

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

and cersi broke free of the medieval/patriarchal mould. the, you must marry and have kids and that's all your for, thing. cos tho she did marry AND have kids, they weren't her husbands kids. she also got rid of him.

Cersei is still quite the prisoner of the medeival/patriarchal mould. After all, yes, she did bear another man's children, and yes, she did have her husband killed. But she's still acting the part, and pretending to be the ideal woman. If she was a mould-breaker, she wouldn't have to hide what she is.

I don't pity her regarding Robert's infidelity. She's no better. And at least he didn't cheat with a family member! Robert just believed in a Rabelaisian lifestyle. I don't second his preferences, but at least he managed to find some joy in a life he despised.

Brienne, Asha, Arya, Daenerys, Maege Mormont, even the Queen of Thorns- those are women who have broken the mould. They're real players in the game.

 

[hedgeknight]

and on top of that she had to watch her twin, part of her self, being treated completely differently, simply for being male. and i can totally sympathise with how crap that must have made her feel. how worthless. and totally understand why she was desperate to have power and some control over her onw life.

Well, this comment might open a can of worms, but to ME it's pretty obvious that Cersei and Jaime ARE completely different - one's a woman, the other a man. It is little wonder that they are treated differently. If Cersei wants to be treated with respect, let her pick up a sword and don armor and ride into battle.
-g-

 

[JohnSnow]

Well, this comment might open a can of worms, but to ME it's pretty obvious that Cersei and Jaime ARE completely different - one's a woman, the other a man. It is little wonder that they are treated differently. If Cersei wants to be treated with respect, let her pick up a sword and don armor and ride into battle.

How dare you point out the obvious. I am not a twin but I have a sister and I am going to call her and berate her for getting more attention as a girl. D@mn I never saw it before, that is why all of those women go into a seperate bathroom, they are women not men. Sheesh! I am so obtuse...

How much more of this do we have to endure. We have it. Faeiry queen likes cersei, she likes twins, she thinks cersei was screwed over, cersei is not at fault, please accept her, blah blah blah...z..z.z.z..z.z.zz.z.z.zzzz

this is almost as bad as my posts against Cat

snow

 

[the_faery_queen]

oy!

Anyway, I dont' think cersi is conforming to the mould. She had another man's kids and murdered her husband. That's nto really the dutiful wife thing is it! But i do agree, she's not a major player. And yes, she and Jamie are different, but that doesn't mean that jamie is neccessarily better than she is, but that seemed to be the way that he was treated. And look at Ayra, she didnt' like being treated like a girl either, she wanted a boy's life. She was just lucky enough to be in a position to get it. And i think that's an interesting contrast really. cersi seemed to hate the way her brother was treated better, she resented the male dominance, which is partlty why i think she is so sexual. Its her way of controlling that dominance. Ayra wanted to have a life like her brothers, so i guess she could also be said to have resented that dominance, but she went the other way, and acted more male like. And both used their brothers. ayra, through jon's help (he taught her sword stuff, right?) and Cersi instead just slept with hers!

very different, though they are similiar in some ways. And that's interesting as a contrast. at least, i think so

 

[Tyranus]

I could have sworn that I read somewhere in AGoT that Cersei was only bedded by Robert once, and alcohol had tricked him the other times into thinking he had actually slept with her (it was something to this affect, it could have been more than once, but I am almost sure she said something about him only bedding her once, it has been a while, I am sure that someone will come to my aid and prove me right or correct me). You keep saying that Robert cheated on her, though in fact she never wanted to sleep with him anyway, so that means exactly nothing, she did not suffer for it she was grateful.

 

[JohnSnow]

Although it pains me to do this, I believe that Cersei was actually attracted to Robrt at first but his love for Lyanna soured that quickly, along with his whoring around.

But in agreement with you Tyranus, it ended up that Cersei could have cared less because she had Jamie.

Only Martin knows what would have happened had Robert fallen for Cersei and abandoned his lost love of Lyanna.

Now back to hating Cersei...

 

[rudycrab]

My problem with Cersei isnt' that she is hateful, full of herself, or sleeping with her brother. I think these are admirable characteristics in an evil queen type. The problem is that she is stupid. I mean I understand that she is a product of her environment and that her father was a jerk abd that expalins her vileness but that doesn't excuse all her mistakes. Her lot in life made it so sex is her main weapon, thats fine, but why does she have to use it on everyone without thought. You would think she might realize that sleeping with a man does not make him your slave but nope she just goes right on. She even tries to seduce Ned. Like that would ever work. Every person in the book can outsmart her, except for Robert cause he is too drunk and Ned becuase he is too nice, all you have to do is find out who she is sleeping with and bribe him.

 

[Culhwch]

Shae, Ygritte, and Lysa Arryn- I heard the song of angels when they died. No kidding. Total cause for celebration.

Absolutely. Preaching to the choir over here, AU. I'm leaning that way with Asha, too.

go brianna underrated character she is. at least so far.

Not to nitpick or anything. You did read the same book as me, right? Never once came across this mysterious 'Brianna'. But then, I am still searching the pages for the elusive 'Jamie'....

Female characters... Dany bores me to tears. I like the Stark girls in fits, but I think Meera is one of the more interesting female characters of the novels. And I've always had a soft spot for Dacey Mormont.

 

[Adasunshine]

Seriously? Cersei? I'm sorry TFQ, I just don't get it, my feelings about her are pretty much summed up on page 2 of this thread.

I am however, right with rudycrab on the stupid thing. Cersei thinks she's clever - oh how she thinks she's clever - but in truth isn't, truly truly isn't clever in the slightest.

The fact of the matter is that she is a lady in what is very much a man's world. If she wants to form a little niche for herself in this society then she needs to use her brains not her *ahem* womanly assets which she seems to feel is the best way to get anyone, male or female because she's obviously so irresistible to everyone. She also needs to stop wanting to be her father, afterall, he didn't prove to be so bloody clever in the end did he? (GO TYRION)

As for her father treating her differently to Jaime making her the way she is - absolute poppycock (???? have never used that word before) as far as I'm concerned. Most women in families as powerful as the Lannisters and some less powerful were brought up in the exact same fashion and they seemed to turn out ok, for instance Margaery Tyrell, although you could argue she had the Queen of Thorns, you could also argue that Cersei never made use of her aunt who is obviously more than she appears to be. Also, no-one in that famliy was treated worse than Tyrion and apart from him doing a little Patricide, he turned out ok, if a little cleverer, twisted and just a wee bit bitter than most people!

You see, Tyrion made the most of what was around him and took advantage of what he could, Cersei on the other hand was quite happy with her lot when she thought she'd be marrying the future King Targaryen and bearing his children but when that all changed and was taken away from her, her spoiled brat nature kicked in and just look where she is now!

Also, the little thing about Arya being more fortunate as she was allowed to act like a boy. Uh-uh, no way. Catelyn & Sansa (Grrr) and that Septa woman were constantly complaining about Arya's choices in life and trying to make her 'a lady' but Arya is just too headstrong, willful and has a wily little brain so doesn't conform. Cersei is none of these things, no matter how hard she tries. Even Ned - albeit to appease Catelyn - tried to make Arya 'see sense'. It wasn't until he actually sat down with her to discuss Needle that he saw that this is what she wanted and was also probably reminded a little of Lyanna that he relented and arranged for tuition with Syrio.

I could go on but it'd just get even more boring than it is already.

Quote from Arya Underfoot

Brienne, Asha, Arya, Daenerys, Maege Mormont, even the Queen of Thorns- those are women who have broken the mould. They're real players in the game.

Amen to that and sorry for the ramble everyone!

xx

 

[the_faery_queen]

well i disagree that's all. i don't think cersi is doing what society wants her to. i don't think their society wants women to be sexual. true patriarchal societies don't. look at the way our society still reacts to women having sex. we still have them called names and so on. and i think that having a TWIN treated differently to you, is far different that a mere sibbling. a twin is aprt of yourself, it drives home the whole situation of how unlucky she was to be born female, in that world. everything went to the other part of her, the male twin, while she, the female part of the same thing was ignored. and tyrion, well, people handle stuff differently. just because he came out the way he did, doesn't mean that cersi would. and yeah, i think she would have been ok with robert if he hadn't called her another woman's name, but she's petty, and he did, and that's his tough really! he should have been more careful and considerate of her. he didn't want her, anymore than she particularly wanted him, but he could have tried to make better of the situation.

that's what i say about cat as well. just cos some people get over their partners cheating, doesn't mean they all do!

anyhoo, kinda bored of this now! sorry! just feel liek i am saying the same old stuff.