Rhaegar's book

[Knight of the Day]

This point keeps sticking in my head

Barriston tells Daenerys that Rhaeger read a book one day then turned up to battle training saying " it seems im to be a warrior..." or something.....
Do we know what this book is?????
Is it the book Aemon left for John in AFFC?????
is it about premonitions of the Prince that was promised?????

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

I'm not sure what the book is called or where he got it from, but it appears to be a collection of prophecies.
It may be from Asshai - there are certainly parallels drawn between Azor Ahai (sp?) and Dany f'instance....

 

[Dolorous Edd]

I'm not sure what the book is called or where he got it from, but it appears to be a collection of prophecies.
It may be from Asshai - there are certainly parallels drawn between Azor Ahai (sp?) and Dany f'instance....

What he said, i'd always assumed that either it was a book of prohecies, or at least that the prophecy of the prince that was promised was contained within it. Maybe it was a history of the targaryens or something and it was included? infact, why did Aegon choose to invade westeros when he fled valyria? Surely they would have seemed like uncultured barbarians to him and his people, and there msut have been far more attractive targets like Qarth or some of the free cities? Perhaps Aegon had read the prohecy to, or another linked to it, and knew his line would one day be needed in westeros?

 

[Knight of the Day]

I thought perhaps Aemon had believed that Jon was the Promised Prince.....but later he begs Sam to tell the Citadel the prophecy was wrong and it was a Princess that is coming.. so what did it say in the Book???... Who shall it be??????
Also as Aemon did not beleive Stannis was holding the true Lightbringer where shall it come from??? Thoros has awoken some magic and his sword takes flame with his blood but is it the one???
Goddamm GRRM: leaves me with more questions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Boaz]

Now, Rhaegar read this passage in a book that changed the direction of his life... but how old was Rhaegar when this happened? Barristan says, iirc, that Rhaegar was still a boy. So did Rhaegar tie the PTWP prophecy or a personal prophecy to a date or event? It seems that Rhaegar understood that some prophecy would be fulfilled during his life time... unfortunately for Rhaegar his life span was cut short.

Knight of the Day, if the Prince is not a Prince, but a Princess... who will it be? Hmmm, Jon might be the last male Targaryen (******* or trueborn)... so if he is not the subject of the prophecy... it has to be a different Targaryen. Who could it be?

 

[Dolorous Edd]

Aemon could have been wrong. I mean he was before. Perhaps he was mistaken about being mistaken, if you see what i mean.

 

[Boaz]

I was wrong once.

Wait! No, I wasn't.

 

[Knight of the Day]

Perhaps Jon is not the last Male Targaryen...maybe Darkstar is his brother.... But it all comes down to the title of the series and Reaghar's words to Lyanna..talking of their son..." he already has a song, his is the Song of Ice and Fire..." Surely this is Jon.. Born of the Flame of Targaryen and the Ice of the Starks.
If Raeghar knew of the prophecy and knew his son would be the Prince then surely the saviour cannot be Dany....
Goddamm I love these books I just read that over and dis-agreed with myself!!!!!

 

[Jaxom_Ruatha]

Wait a minute am I missing something, how do we know Jon is the son of Lyanna and Reaghar?

 

[Boaz]

I don't know who first proposed the theory that Jon is the product of a union between Rhaegar and Lyanna... but I believe it.

Fact: Lyanna is known to be with Rhaegar.

Brandon hears the news while on his way to Riverrun to marry Catelyn. From the Starks perspective (and Robert's), Lyanna was kidnapped while the Targaryen perspective seems to be that Lyanna was willing to run away with Rhaegar or that Rhaegar merely took what was his due as Crown Prince. Brandon rides to King's Landing and demands Rhaegar's head. Aerys captures/arrests (depdnding on Stark and Targaryen perspectives) Brandon and calls Lord Rickard to come answer for his son. Aerys then murders/justly condemns Rickard and Brandon. Lyanna is still held against her will/freely living somewhere with Rhaegar. Aerys then called for Jon Arryn to hand over the innocent/traitorous Eddard. Ned, Robert (Lyanna's betrothed), and Jon raise their standards in revolt rather than let Aerys murder innocents/judge traitors.

It's pretty much been proven from Jaime's POV that Aerys was a bloodthirsty lunatic. So we can agree with the Stark perspective on the actions of Aerys.

But as for Rhaegar's actions, Robert and Ned seemed to have hated him. But in Dany's POV, Barristan provides a completely opposite opinion of Rhaegar. We also see a little of this in Jaime's POV. Barristan and Jaime both viewed Rhaegar as gentle, honest, forthright, noble, courageous, and highly intelligent.

Also, from Ned's POV and from Meera's stories, we learn that Lyanna was extremely headstrong and willful. She might have run away with Rhaegar.

The theory is strongly influenced by the idea that Lyanna ran off Rhaegar instead of being kidnapped by him. Jon's birth could have been the result of rape, but I think not.

But perhaps the strongest argument for Rhaegar and Lyanna's parentage of Jon comes from Ned's memories of Lyanna and this promise he made to her. She was dying in a bed of blood, perhaps from complications in giving birth. She demanded a promise from Ned... this promise cost Ned his whole life. He thinks about how hard it's been to keep this promise over the years. If the promise was to bury Lyanna at Winterfell, it does not seem that it should be hard to keep fourteen years later. If the promise was to protect Robert, well Ned made up with Robert after the rebellion, Ned let Jon Arryn watch over him, Ned led the counter attack against Balon Greyjoy's rebellion, and Ned served Robert as Hand... it seems that Ned was just doing his duty. If the promise was to hide Rhaegar's son from Robert's hatred of Targaryens, then this seems plausible. Claiming Jon as his ******* cost Ned intimacy with Catelyn, cost him humiliation for being disloyal to his wife, cost him slight upon his sacred honor... yet he let Jon grow up with his own children.

When AGOT starts, fourteen years after Robert's ascension to the Iron Throne, Jon is fourteen years old.

There are other threads where this is spelled out in more detail...

 

[Dolorous Edd]

^^^

What he said. Except i've never got the impression that Ned hated Rhaegar, quite the opposite. Which would point more towards Llyana going willingly with Rhaegar, for had he forced himself upon her I'm sure Ned would have felt hatred for him.

 

[Jaxom_Ruatha]

This does make since, and I find myself easily accepting it; but what about that woman of noble birth who commited suicide apparently out of a borken heart from Edd leaving her or something?

 

[Boaz]

Ashara Dayne and Ned seemed to have had a crush on each other. If Brandon, Rhaegar and Lyanna had lived, then Ned might have married Ashara. But when Brandon died, Ned married Catelyn in his place. Then Ned and his men killed Ser Arthur Dayne, Ashara's older brother, when they rescued Lyanna. Ashara's grief and resulting suicide can be contributed to any one or combination of the following factors; 1) Her true love married another, 2) Her true love killed her beloved brother, and 3) Her true love showed up with a ******* child within a year of sending her a love letter. (I don't know that any love letter existed, I'm just imagining that they corresponded via raven or messanger from the Aerie to Starfall.)

 

[Dolorous Edd]

3) Her true love showed up with a ******* child within a year of sending her a love letter. (I don't know that any love letter existed, I'm just imagining that they corresponded via raven or messanger from the Aerie to Starfall.)

I suspect that may have been the killer for Ned in accepting Jon as his own. I believe he came to trully love Catelyn, but it must have been horrible for him to hear of Ashara's death, and i have no doubt he felt completely responsible. The first two can be put down to his doing his duty, and Ashara would have known that, though it would have been cold comfort. But Jon? That would have finished her off.

 

[Boaz]

If Rhaegar figured (or thought he figured) out this prophecy, then won't someone else? Jon Arryn, Eddard, and mayhaps Stannis all read the book on genealogies and got the same conclusion... why not Rhaegar's book?

Who are the readers in ASOIAF? Tyrion, Sam, the Reader (of the Iron Islands), Marwyn, and Willas Tyrell seem to be the ones that we hear of as voracious readers. Sam already knows something about fighting the Others, mayhaps he'll find out who will defeat THE Other.

If Rhaegar shared his theory with Aemon (or even if Aemon read this prophecy on his own), then Aemon knew that a Targaryen must defeat The Other. Aemon must have wondered after Rhaegar's death if Viserys or he himself could fight The Other.

No matter which way I turn it seems to come back to Daenerys. Which is why I think it's interesting that Tyrion is one of the readers. He seems to be on a collision course with Dany. Tyrion could interpret TPTWP to be Dany... or himself if Varys and/or Barristan spill the beans.

I know I've probably sickened you all with my Tyrion Targaryen posts, but could Tyrion's use of Wildfire to defeat Stannis foreshadow his use of dragonfire to defeat The Other? Stannis was an outsider, the one no one wanted, and Tyrion defeated him with some help from the Lannister/Tyrell horde.

For Aegon Targaryen to be alive, he's been assisted by either the Martells or the Conningtons. Both families seemed close to Rhaegar... especially Jon Connington. If one of these families is raising Aegon, then perhaps he's aware of the prophecy as well. How will he try to fulfill it if he perceives himself as TPTWP?

 

[Koopa]

Well, the Reader from the ironIslands, has read the same book Aermon mentioned to Jon. It was mentioned in AFFC somewhere.

 

[Charming Serpent]

Ok, maybe I am cranky, but do some of u people not read the books properly??? Some of the stuff I hear from u guys is ludacris. I'll try and explain some of ur questions ... Not once is it mentioned what the book is called that Rhaegar sees the prophecy and furthermore, who cares??? The prince that was promised is a well known legend 8000 years old so of course people know about it. Rhaegar found something that made him think it was him. Aemon later states it was he who thought that and then told Rhaegar. thas most likely what happened with Rhaegar appearing in the sword yard when little. Then Aemon says later in life Rhaegar thought it was his own son cuz a comet was seen when he was born. And as to this theory that Aegon is alive ... c'mon people, there isnt even a hint of that. He wasnt switched etc... Clegane admits to smashing his head and why would they just take Aegon and not the lil princess? Also, in Jaime's dream/vision of being under the Rock Rhaegar states he left jaime with his children. And this Tyrion crap ... when he was young he wanted to fly on a dragon. Obviously Martin will grant him his wish cuz at the readings from Martin, Mopatis steers him to Danys, but just cuz he lit the river aflame doesnt mean jack. Aemon didnt think anything more about the prophecies cuz he thought he and Rhaegar were just plain wrong until he heard about Danys. Also, we all know that only Howland Reed still knows what happened with Rhaegar and Lyanna since he was there with Ned when they found her, but Martin once said when asked about who knew about Jon's true parents "The Shadow knows" Dany must go through Asshaii to get to Westeros or so says that masked red woman. Lightbringer most like will be found there or even maybe the wall. Martin also says that the Valryian targaryen sword will make an appearance, called Blackflame or or something near enough.

 

[viZion]

Ok, maybe I am cranky, but do some of u people not read the books properly???

Ohh..you sound fun.. once you figure out how to use paragraphs to make your thoughts easier to read...

Oh wait, I think I'm not supposed to rag on you until you get to 18 posts. I'm still new here, too.

 

[Charming Serpent]

Lol, ok. Obviously I was a tad bit cranky, so sorry for angry demeanor. For the life of me I cannot find how to make paragraphs either, lol.

I also forgot to mention something; Aemon, when dying, refers to how the wall preserves and how he should get back there to let Jon know something. I believe it might have to do with a dragon egg or perhaps one of the two swords I had previously mentioned. Of course, it was stated that the Golden Company is heading for Dany also and they were founded by Daemon Blackfyre's half brother who were all part targaryen so, they might have the Targaryen sword with them.

Last clear up point: In Dany's vision in the House of the Undying, she does see Rhaegar standing over a woman, but it is not Lyanna. He calls the baby boy the Prince Who was Promised and states that there must be one more. Implying that the boy is Aegon and his sister is the other, but that the dragon must have 3 heads. The woman in the bed is most like Elia. Unfortunately, Rhaegar's theory was proved wrong when Lannisters killed his children. So, I would assume that Jon, Dany and one more (most like Tyrion, though also most like he is not a Targaryen, will ride the Dragons.)​

 

[viZion]

Heh, no problem. Welcome to these forums!

See, the way I always interpreted it was that Rhaegar says there must be one more so he goes to make that one more with Lyanna and produces Jon. Of course, the first two die so if Jon is one and then Dany is another, we still need one more. Most speculation seems to be about who the third is and, of course, there's even a lot of disagreement about who the first two are. But I think that's what you're saying as well.