Brienna's "Last" word

[Boaz]

SPOILER ALERT for ADWD! BEWARE!

So what was her word?

ADWD came and went without a POV for Brienne, but she did make an appearance. So we can assume her word met with approval from Stoneheart.

Do you think she really means to hand Jaime over to Stoneheart? Here is Brienne's oath.

"Then I am yours, my lady. Your liege man, or... whatever you would have me to be. I will shield your back and keep your counsel and give my life for yours, if need be. I swear it by the old gods and the new."

And here is Catelyn's vow.

"And I vow that you shall always have a place by my hearth and meat and mead at my table, and pledge to ask no service of you that might bring you into dishonor. I swear it by the old gods and the new."

Obviously Stoneheart saw Brienne as an oathbreaker. Now does Brienne see Stoneheart as one as well?

In the second Catelyn POV after these women swear to each other, Brienne overhears Jaime say to Catelyn...

"So many vows... they make you swear and swear. Defend the king. Obey the king. Keep his secrets. Do his bidding. Your life for his. But obey your father. Love your sister. Protect the innocent. Defend the weak. Respect the gods. Obey the laws. It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or the other."

I think Brienne has learned of both edges of an oath. She may sympathize with Jaime on this point.

So now Stoneheart (a capricious and insane woman bent on vengeance) has sent Brienne to kidnap and/or kill Jaime (a man striving to do justice and save Catelyn's daughter).

It's not like Jaime has not earned himself a violent death, but he and Stoneheart are not the same people they were when they feasted together in Winterfell.

Will she hand him over or does Brienne have a plan to team up with him to defeat the Brotherhood?

 

[Eversummer]

that--we can only speculate at the mean time but as always you're on the right track. GRRM is so good with subtlety and in showing the humanity or the good in every heart of each character as well as the bad. I've always admired how reckless Jaime was and the affection he got for his little brother...If only I can spare him from his future death--with GRRM we just don't know when will it be... Would that I could.

 

[Eulalia]

I predict that Jaime will be brought back to account to Stoneheart and he and Brienne will be required to rescue Sansa to fulfill his oath. There are a few people in the Eerie who may suspect her indentity, and perhaps it has gotten back to Stoneheart.

 

[Boaz]

MAJOR ASOS SPOILER!!!!!

I don't think Stoneheart cares for Sansa. I think she's hellbent for vengeance.

Beric Dondarrion was vain, arrogant and narcissistic, but at the moment he died, he was actually trying to bring the King's Justice and Peace to the Riverlands. And when Thoros brought him back to life, all that mattered to Beric was bringing the King's Justice to the Lannisters and the King's Peace to the Riverlands.

I know that is a small sample size, but I think Catelyn's state of mind at her death is the only relevant point regarding her future actions. At the moment of her death, she was insane with grief and hatred towards the Freys and Lannisters. Since becoming Stoneheart, her entire agenda has been to kill Freys. During her conversation with Brienne, Stoneheart stated she wanted either Robb alive or Jaime dead. Then Brienne mentioned her mission to find Sansa... which Stoneheart pointedly ignored. She then gave Brienne the choice... sword or noose... Jaime's death or her own death.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

MAJOR ASOS SPOILER!!!!!

I don't think Stoneheart cares for Sansa. I think she's hellbent for vengeance.

Beric Dondarrion was vain, arrogant and narcissistic, but at the moment he died, he was actually trying to bring the King's Justice and Peace to the Riverlands. And when Thoros brought him back to life, all that mattered to Beric was bringing the King's Justice to the Lannisters and the King's Peace to the Riverlands.

I know that is a small sample size, but I think Catelyn's state of mind at her death is the only relevant point regarding her future actions. At the moment of her death, she was insane with grief and hatred towards the Freys and Lannisters. Since becoming Stoneheart, her entire agenda has been to kill Freys. During her conversation with Brienne, Stoneheart stated she wanted either Robb alive or Jaime dead. Then Brienne mentioned her mission to find Sansa... which Stoneheart pointedly ignored. She then gave Brienne the choice... sword or noose... Jaime's death or her own death.

I agree with you. Stoneheart is very different from Catelyn as we had known her. Catelyn was always advocating peace so that she could live with what little family she had left. But now, she still could have Sansa and she is ignoring it completely for the sake of revenge. I feel as if Stoneheart is almost a completely new character that revolves solely around the circumstances of her death.

Besides, Beric did say that every time he returns, he loses more of himself and Catelyn was dead for a long time before she was revived. It is natural to presume she had forgotten much of her previous life and self.

 

[Eulalia]

It may be that Stoneheart is now too stony to care about Sansa.

But there is a problem. When last seen Jaime and Brienne are headed off together. Would Brienne lead Jaime to his death. He saved her life. Or will she honour her vows to Catelyn, as she once was, to obey her then or now. Will she be an oathbreaker, after all? I can't see Jaime just ending up ganked by a noose. And it is hard to imagine Brienne totally betraying Jaime.

 

[Boaz]

Eulalia, I agree it'll be hard for Brienne to go through with her treachery. Stoneheart gave her the choice... sword or noose. Brienne chose sword, but she did so for Podrick... yet, in order to save Pod, she'll betray her commander.

Brienne has a father to raise her. Brienne had a master of arms to train her. She had a king and commander in Renly. She had a master in Catelyn. But they're all gone. AND never forget that Jaime was the only one to believe in her. Sure, her father gave her a sword, the master of arms taught her to use it and both Renly and Catelyn accepted it in their service. Renly gave her a cloak. Catelyn gave her a mission. But Jaime saved her life multiple times (from Rorge, from the bear, and from Loras) and he gave her a Valyrian Steel Blade (Eddard's own sword) so that she could keep her oath to Catelyn.

All this is to say... Jaime gave her a real quest. But it's not the quest that means something to Brienne. Jaime gave her his respect as a warrior. Brienne's father humored her, the master of arms had his fingers crossed, Renly considered her a pet, and Catelyn did not have a better option. Randyll Tarly scorned her and Hyle and Ronnett mocked her. Even Nimble Dick and the Mad Mouse did not take her seriously. But Jaime actually discovered her mettle with and without a sword. He gave her a Valyrian Steel Blade... that's like someone giving you a super carrier (U.S Nimitz or Ford class or planned UK QE class aircraft carrier)... there are only a handful in the entire world! He showed his respect also by allowing her to continue her mission to fulfill her oath to Catelyn to find her daughters, even though this is against his family's wishes.... The King, The Hand, and the Dowager Queen.

How can Brienne choose anything but to try and save Jaime?

And yet... supporting Jaime will be the death of Puh... puh... puh... Podrick puh... puh... puh... Payne who happens to be the only other person who has fully respected Brienne. And Brienne knows the way of chivalry, Pod is her squire, her responsibility, her student... how could she just let him die? He's the only one who thinks of her as a knight. "Ser. My lady."

 

[Eulalia]

Well put! Perhaps Jaime and Brienne will rescue Pod, and one of them will dispatch Stoneheart, and then go to find Sansa. Sansa might have another conflict, then. (they killed my Mom and Jaime took part in killing her Dad) Clearly a love story will be born of this, confusing the situation further.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

It may be that Stoneheart is now too stony to care about Sansa.

But there is a problem. When last seen Jaime and Brienne are headed off together. Would Brienne lead Jaime to his death. He saved her life. Or will she honour her vows to Catelyn, as she once was, to obey her then or now. Will she be an oathbreaker, after all? I can't see Jaime just ending up ganked by a noose. And it is hard to imagine Brienne totally betraying Jaime.

Technically, when Catelyn was accepting Brienne's vows, she vowed not to ask her to do anything that would endanger her honour.

 

[Ursa major]

Technically, Cat died, but that doesn't seem to have stopped her.

​

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Technically, Cat died, but that doesn't seem to have stopped her.

​

Yes, however, it nullifies oath-breaking.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Yes, however, it nullifies oath-breaking.

This is the same argument people make when they say that if Jon needs to be revived by Mel then he is free of his Oath to the Night's Watch.

When Brienne swears her oath to Jaime, doesn't she think that Cat is dead? she heard about the Red Wedding no?