Star Wars

[Dave]

I pickup dvd copy of A New Hope because I might not have an opportunity to own a copy because this medium is going away

I have the original version on VHS prior to any changes but seeing it on the big screen will be bombad!!

I'm not sure that I've actually seen the updated version of A New Hope in its entirety. I also have Star Wars on VHS and that is probably the only version I have ever seen from beginning to end. That's the only version that I've watched at the cinema, although I may have watched it when shown on TV. I really can't remember, but I have seen clips online of some of the changes, and I did deliberately watch the 'Greedo shoots first' part because of all the fuss and outrage it caused at the time. Some of the changes just cause background visual noise that I think would distract me from the original story.

 

[Phyrebrat]

I'm not sure that I've actually seen the updated version of A New Hope in its entirety. I also have Star Wars on VHS and that is probably the only version I have ever seen from beginning to end. That's the only version that I've watched at the cinema, although I may have watched it when shown on TV. I really can't remember, but I have seen clips online of some of the changes, and I did deliberately watch the 'Greedo shoots first' part because of all the fuss and outrage it caused at the time. Some of the changes just cause background visual noise that I think would distract me from the original story.

Re Greedogate… ugh. I never understood why he felt it important to change that. Who cares? The fact that he did change it made people care (nowadays the toxic fandom would denigrate it by using the ‘w’ word). They felt it detracted from their head canon on Han.

One of the most supreme moments in Solo is when he shoots first — it’s an actual plot point which is foreshadowed all the way through the film, and then heavily leaned into with his dialogue with Beckett. I loved that. It had such consistency with the unnecessary change in the SE cantina scene, whilst also possibly intimating to those thankless haters; ‘now sit your ass down.’

And the Jabba scene …. I like it for its content but how many Jabbas are there going to be by the time they’re finally done with fiddling . Surely they had a better effects budget? I mean Jurassic Park still staggers me with its realness of the cgi elements and that was ‘93!! And bearing in mind this is Star Wars, they could have used a hologram to do that scene which would’ve been far more forgiving.

However, whatever I think — as a writer and choreographer — my take on these things is about the creator’s vision not the audience. I’ve always felt this is his art and his decision. He owes nothing to the fans for putting his creative vision on screen. And as a writer I know how important it is to me to fiddle with my prose/narrative — even after a long break from what I thought was the final edit.

More importantly, what I love is here we are ~50 years later, talking about a franchise that was so important it changed or influenced western society so profoundly that it has become immortal let alone its current longevity.

Can you think of a film or franchise that has subjected us to such partisanship or bias and opinion? As much anger as well as happiness? Nothing comes close to that in entertainment — Star Wars is the film equivalent of football (soccer to you ex-subjects). It creates so much happiness but also so much tribalism. Fantastic.

 

[Swank]

Re Greedogate… ugh. I never understood why he felt it important to change that. Who cares? The fact that he did change it made people care (nowadays the toxic fandom would denigrate it by using the ‘w’ word). They felt it detracted from their head canon on Han.

One of the most supreme moments in Solo is when he shoots first — it’s an actual plot point which is foreshadowed all the way through the film, and then heavily leaned into with his dialogue with Beckett. I loved that. It had such consistency with the unnecessary change in the SE cantina scene, whilst also possibly intimating to those thankless haters; ‘now sit your ass down.’

And the Jabba scene …. I like it for its content but how many Jabbas are there going to be by the time they’re finally done with fiddling . Surely they had a better effects budget? I mean Jurassic Park still staggers me with its realness of the cgi elements and that was ‘93!! And bearing in mind this is Star Wars, they could have used a hologram to do that scene which would’ve been far more forgiving.

However, whatever I think — as a writer and choreographer — my take on these things is about the creator’s vision not the audience. I’ve always felt this is his art and his decision. He owes nothing to the fans for putting his creative vision on screen. And as a writer I know how important it is to me to fiddle with my prose/narrative — even after a long break from what I thought was the final edit.

More importantly, what I love is here we are ~50 years later, talking about a franchise that was so important it changed or influenced western society so profoundly that it has become immortal let alone its current longevity.

Can you think of a film or franchise that has subjected us to such partisanship or bias and opinion? As much anger as well as happiness? Nothing comes close to that in entertainment — Star Wars is the film equivalent of football (soccer to you ex-subjects). It creates so much happiness but also so much tribalism. Fantastic.

Can you think of any film franchise where the first 3(2) films were so broadly appealing, and the follow ups as large a departure?

Certainly the detractors of later Indiana Jones, Alien, Rocky and Godfather films exist, but none of those films have a ratio of 8 questionable films to the beloved 3 originals. And Alien got weird by film 2 and 3 was not good.

Also, the major time gap is an issue. Decades to build expectations.

 

[Phyrebrat]

Can you think of any film franchise where the first 3(2) films were so broadly appealing, and the follow ups as large a departure?

Certainly the detractors of later Indiana Jones, Alien, Rocky and Godfather films exist, but none of those films have a ratio of 8 questionable films to the beloved 3 originals. And Alien got weird by film 2 and 3 was not good.

Also, the major time gap is an issue. Decades to build expectations.

Hi,

No I can’t, not at all, and I think you’re spot on there as usual. I grew up thinking there wouldn’t be anymore Star Wars. And I suppose I come from a generation where sequels (and definitely prequels) weren’t really a thing — certainly not as ubiquitous and part of many movies’ business plans the way they are now. So I was surprised (but skeptical) when they’d said they were doing prequels. It wasn’t that I didn’t want more Star Wars, rather that it was so idiosyncratic and different from other SFF films, I couldn’t visualise more of a story - either before Star Wars or after ROTJ — and certainly whether or not it having done justice to my expectations and assumptions (and I dare say entitlement).

But the hype and trailers got me so excited…

When I look back at my reaction to TPM I felt it was not as robust a film as the OT but I enjoyed it immensely and instinctively knew the prequels were about world-building for Lucas, prepping us for more SW content.

I was disheartened by the racial stereotypes but also — as a horror fan — was used to the black characters in any horror being killed off, and how minorities are treated in mainstream Hollywood action flicks (‘exotic negro’, clown, machete-fodder). I felt this racial stereotyping in the prequels was used by haters, not to support their critique of the films’ shortcomings but co-opted reductively to support their rhetoric of ‘OT good; prequels bad.’

Because they never remarked upon it when I asked them about the horror trope (for example) above.

But that’s a side issue that strays too near forbidden topics here on Chrons.

I think the important point here is that Star Wars is so influential, it crosses generations not only with its intergenerational viewing, but more importantly the partisanship of each of those generations who grew up with particular trilogies.

In the real world, outside of angry YouTubers and Twitter, as a teacher of kids from 5 years to post-compulsory education age, I’ve witnessed in my schools and colleges the prequels trilogy being lauded over the originals by the generation who grew up with that as their Star Wars; to now, where I have the current crop of girls turning up in my class dressed as Rey (and even a boy or two drawing up as her) and moaning about the prequels. I strongly believe our relationship with Star Wars comes from what age we were when we saw it. Kids are now dressing up as Mando and Ahsoka more than Rey or Kylo Ren on my classes.

I feel sorry for those of my generation who can’t let go of their disappointment and enjoy SW on any or all of its forms without turning it into a logic argument (or that it didn’t fit the plot they had in their own minds). I was six when I saw Star Wars* when it came out. I never once thought of how it should go at that age, but it has remained incredibly important, and a defining part of my life and personality.

*case in point re partisanship: I refer to ep4 as Star Wars not ANH, because that’s what it was when it engraved itself onto my heart, age six. I’ll use ANH for clarity where needed but for me, ep4 is called Star Wars.

The only obvious comparison I can make is the Marvel universe that is saturating us. But that isn’t so much because the follow-up films are disappointing, but that it’s more a complex argument of interdisciplinary practice, where deviation from canon in comics (rather than films) has upset fans. I can’t speak to that much because I’ve only really enjoyed The Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy content from all that playworld and have very thin knowledge (and, if I’m honest, interest) of it all.

I was wondering what you thought about the Tolkien stuff in this regard. The LOTR trilogy were widely praised as far as I recall, but then came the utter drudgery of the Jobbit. I understand that was about greed, and that splitting a novella into a trilogy of long films was a nonsensical choice, but it’s the only thing I can think of as a fair comparison, even though they’re recent.

But even then, they came from books which arguably created a paradigm shift in fantasy and so were already massively important to fans even before they’d seen how successful the movies would be. If I was a hi-fantasy fan/reader, I’m pretty sure I’d have been far more worried about the execution of LOTR than I was about TPM.

Don’t know if that makes sense but it’s all I could say without a deep academic dive into JSTOR (!). Also any readers of this please remember I’m really out my depth when it comes to fantasy, so what I’ve said about LOTR etc is just how I experienced it all, and may not be reflective of the larger world.

I feel like I may have overcomplicated your question or maybe misunderstood so correct me if I went off-piste.

 

[Matteo]

I have the restored versions of the three films on VHS - no added bits or changes. And the "improved" versions on DVD.

If only those VHS versions were available on DVD.

 

[paranoid marvin]

They released the original movies as bonus extras on DVD some years ago. Grainy visuals, below average sound. Almost as if to prove how much better the 'enhanced' versions were.

All we ever wanted was to have a version of the movie we remembered seeing in the movies in the 70s.

 

[Swank]

Hi,

No I can’t, not at all, and I think you’re spot on there as usual. I grew up thinking there wouldn’t be anymore Star Wars. And I suppose I come from a generation where sequels (and definitely prequels) weren’t really a thing — certainly not as ubiquitous and part of many movies’ business plans the way they are now. So I was surprised (but skeptical) when they’d said they were doing prequels. It wasn’t that I didn’t want more Star Wars, rather that it was so idiosyncratic and different from other SFF films, I couldn’t visualise more of a story - either before Star Wars or after ROTJ — and certainly whether or not it having done justice to my expectations and assumptions (and I dare say entitlement).

But the hype and trailers got me so excited…

When I look back at my reaction to TPM I felt it was not as robust a film as the OT but I enjoyed it immensely and instinctively knew the prequels were about world-building for Lucas, prepping us for more SW content.

I was disheartened by the racial stereotypes but also — as a horror fan — was used to the black characters in any horror being killed off, and how minorities are treated in mainstream Hollywood action flicks (‘exotic negro’, clown, machete-fodder). I felt this racial stereotyping in the prequels was used by haters, not to support their critique of the films’ shortcomings but co-opted reductively to support their rhetoric of ‘OT good; prequels bad.’

Because they never remarked upon it when I asked them about the horror trope (for example) above.

But that’s a side issue that strays too near forbidden topics here on Chrons.

I think the important point here is that Star Wars is so influential, it crosses generations not only with its intergenerational viewing, but more importantly the partisanship of each of those generations who grew up with particular trilogies.

In the real world, outside of angry YouTubers and Twitter, as a teacher of kids from 5 years to post-compulsory education age, I’ve witnessed in my schools and colleges the prequels trilogy being lauded over the originals by the generation who grew up with that as their Star Wars; to now, where I have the current crop of girls turning up in my class dressed as Rey (and even a boy or two drawing up as her) and moaning about the prequels. I strongly believe our relationship with Star Wars comes from what age we were when we saw it. Kids are now dressing up as Mando and Ahsoka more than Rey or Kylo Ren on my classes.

I feel sorry for those of my generation who can’t let go of their disappointment and enjoy SW on any or all of its forms without turning it into a logic argument (or that it didn’t fit the plot they had in their own minds). I was six when I saw Star Wars* when it came out. I never once thought of how it should go at that age, but it has remained incredibly important, and a defining part of my life and personality.

*case in point re partisanship: I refer to ep4 as Star Wars not ANH, because that’s what it was when it engraved itself onto my heart, age six. I’ll use ANH for clarity where needed but for me, ep4 is called Star Wars.

The only obvious comparison I can make is the Marvel universe that is saturating us. But that isn’t so much because the follow-up films are disappointing, but that it’s more a complex argument of interdisciplinary practice, where deviation from canon in comics (rather than films) has upset fans. I can’t speak to that much because I’ve only really enjoyed The Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy content from all that playworld and have very thin knowledge (and, if I’m honest, interest) of it all.

I was wondering what you thought about the Tolkien stuff in this regard. The LOTR trilogy were widely praised as far as I recall, but then came the utter drudgery of the Jobbit. I understand that was about greed, and that splitting a novella into a trilogy of long films was a nonsensical choice, but it’s the only thing I can think of as a fair comparison, even though they’re recent.

But even then, they came from books which arguably created a paradigm shift in fantasy and so were already massively important to fans even before they’d seen how successful the movies would be. If I was a hi-fantasy fan/reader, I’m pretty sure I’d have been far more worried about the execution of LOTR than I was about TPM.

Don’t know if that makes sense but it’s all I could say without a deep academic dive into JSTOR (!). Also any readers of this please remember I’m really out my depth when it comes to fantasy, so what I’ve said about LOTR etc is just how I experienced it all, and may not be reflective of the larger world.

I feel like I may have overcomplicated your question or maybe misunderstood so correct me if I went off-piste.

The big difference between Star Wars and many other successful series like LOTR, Marvel and Harry Potter is that the latter are adaptations of popular material, and SW, Rocky, Mad Max are original. So as long as the adaptation is fairly straight, fans of the books will enjoy it. And that's why I think the new Dune was successful - it was not style driven and just hit the big bullet points.

I think you've read my various treatises on SW 4-6 and what they got so very right, and I think it is still true that no one has really harnessed that sort of fun-but-scary adventure in a far flung world since. Everything else original has that post-'80s camp. That feel is why I so like Lucasfilm's Dragonslayer so much, and Raiders. The new Furiosa films have some of those excellent qualities, though.


My "frustration" is that all the follow on films didn't duplicate what the 4-6 did so very well - as if the originals were either a happy accident, or no one felt they could or should do that again.


The prequels should have been about a much more nuanced fall from grace for Anakin - where his "evil" was more like a moral call to do something unethical, and Kenobi actually betraying him, making the later "lie" to Luke deeper than just whether he died. Moral ambiguity in the face of Clone War calamity could have provided fantastic action and a Skywalker MC that would remain the loved protagonist until the bitter end. And what a back story for Ben to have a darker history!

The follow-on films 7-9 should have been about something other than the Empire-like thing. A Jedi mystery in the backdrop of cleaning up resistant Star Destroyers, or some other thing more like an adventure than a war.

 

[BAYLOR]

I have the restored versions of the three films on VHS - no added bits or changes. And the "improved" versions on DVD.

If only those VHS versions were available on DVD.

Is it at all possible to transfer the VHS version to DVD?

 

[Swank]

Is it at all possible to transfer the VHS version to DVD?

No. When you do this the magnets conflict with the digits and an animated image of the devil chasing a chicken replaces the film.

 

[Foxbat]

Is it at all possible to transfer the VHS version to DVD?

Yes. I've done it but, frankly, it's not worth doing. VHS just doesn't have the resolution to make it worthwhile. I've also transferred the Special Edition Laser Disc (CAV) versions but the sheer number of discs to transfer (nine if I recall correctly - three per movie) makes it a time consuming pain in the arse.

The other thing to consider is that you would be transferring on to recordable DVDs. These work in a very different way (polarising ink rather than permanent pits in an aluminium platter). These recordable DVDs are notorious for degrading over time and there's a chance that after a few years they might become unreadable.

The best option is simply to buy the commercially produced DVDs. But I know your problem. They don't produce the movies as they were originally shown. If you use a PC for the transfer, you will need a lot of free disc space. I worked this way and once managed to get halfway through a transfer before I ran out of space. Had to start over after freeing up more space. I used to also transfer 8mm, 16mm and 9.5 mm film but all these aforementioned problems are why I gave up doing it about fifteen years ago. Plus, I only did it as a favour for friends but, eventually the favours get bigger and bigger and it all becomes too much work.

If you really want to do it, Here's an example (I've never used this kit, I just found it to show you it's possible) of a cheap conversion kit you could buy and hook up to a DVD recorder.

Video cassettes to DVD - Video Converter

Video cassettes to DVD - Video Converter Convert and…

blitzhandel24.co.uk

 

[Matteo]

I assumed it wasn't possible and that even if it was the picture would be lousy on a modern tv.

I'm genuinely surprised that the restored versions are not available on DVD though - would be a big seller.

 

[paranoid marvin]

I assumed it wasn't possible and that even if it was the picture would be lousy on a modern tv.

I'm genuinely surprised that the restored versions are not available on DVD though - would be a big seller.

Check out the extras on the 'limited edition' 2 disc DVDs from 2006 (available on Amazon for less than a tenner). These are about as close as you are likely to get to the original movies on disc.

 

[Pyan]

Kids are now dressing up as Mando.... more than Rey or Kylo Ren on my classes.

I wonder, what happens if you tell them to take off their helmets?

 

[Vince W]

Check out the extras on the 'limited edition' 2 disc DVDs from 2006 (available on Amazon for less than a tenner). These are about as close as you are likely to get to the original movies on disc.

Are these the same as the special edition dvds that included the original uncut versions on a send disc? Because I have a set of these.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Are these the same as the special edition dvds that included the original uncut versions on a send disc? Because I have a set of these.

Yes, they sound like those. I'm not entirely certain they were the original cinema screen versions, something tellse they still had the updated scrolly text at the beginning. But probably as close as we'll get

 

[Phyrebrat]

I wonder, what happens if you tell them to take off their helmets?

They told me, ‘ this isn’t the way’ and then attacked me.

 

[Swank]

I wonder, what happens if you tell them to take off their helmets?

 

[BAYLOR]

Uncle Owen and Aunt Berus

Upon discovering that Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru have been reduced to charred Skeletons, Luke Skywalker did an off camera happy dance.shouting " I'm Freeeee !!!!" Of course that bit never made it into the movie.

 

[KGeo777]

Lucas talked about other movies since 1980.
I know that after 1983 there was a lot of talk about him doing more films and people waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting.
And then SE versions came out and people were excited and then the first prequel came out and ...uhhh.

But I think if one takes a cinema archeologist view, what happened with Star Wars is that FX novelty wore off by the time of the prequels.

It's like this--in 1900, someone slipping on a banana peel on film would have been the talk of the town. It would be like Moses parting the Red Sea. Because no one had ever seen anything like a projected motion image before. It was bigger than the internet.
But eventually people get used to it. Someone slipping on a banana peel would not elicit the same reaction in the 1930s or 50s or 90s..
Not the WOW aspect.
The original Star Wars was able to do something cinematic that was entirely new in experience and that was the core of its appeal. And you just can't do it anymore.
So for movies like Star Wars today, the challenge is, how do you make the banana peel gag exciting?
I am skeptical it can be done.
Avatar was probably the last movie where they pushed the boundaries of visual experience but not enough or with too limited a story or characters to make it memorable.
In theory someone could do a Star Wars pastiche that makes some people go "hey that's neat" but it would never capture the same audience reaction because people have seen it already.

The Star Destroyer descending from the top of the screen had never been done--so that was amazing.
You can't do it now.

But maybe it is a good thing because some criticism of Star Wars were about story and character--and so you could have something similar with more of a dramatic depth maybe.
I have said it before--the real stars of Star Wars were the technicians. The FX crew, and especially Ralph McQuarrie. I think he put more butts in seats than anyone else by his costume and production design as well as the ship designers.
TIE fighter especially. There had never been a spaceship like that.
Maybe in a Japanese movie.
People who had zero interest in sci-fi went to see it because of the unique visual and sound experience.

 

[BAYLOR]

Lucas talked about other movies since 1980.
I know that after 1983 there was a lot of talk about him doing more films and people waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting.
And then SE versions came out and people were excited and then the first prequel came out and ...uhhh.

But I think if one takes a cinema archeologist view, what happened with Star Wars is that FX novelty wore off by the time of the prequels.

It's like this--in 1900, someone slipping on a banana peel on film would have been the talk of the town. It would be like Moses parting the Red Sea. Because no one had ever seen anything like a projected motion image before. It was bigger than the internet.
But eventually people get used to it. Someone slipping on a banana peel would not elicit the same reaction in the 1930s or 50s or 90s..
Not the WOW aspect.
The original Star Wars was able to do something cinematic that was entirely new in experience and that was the core of its appeal. And you just can't do it anymore.
So for movies like Star Wars today, the challenge is, how do you make the banana peel gag exciting?
I am skeptical it can be done.
Avatar was probably the last movie where they pushed the boundaries of visual experience but not enough or with too limited a story or characters to make it memorable.
In theory someone could do a Star Wars pastiche that makes some people go "hey that's neat" but it would never capture the same audience reaction because people have seen it already.

The Star Destroyer descending from the top of the screen had never been done--so that was amazing.
You can't do it now.

But maybe it is a good thing because some criticism of Star Wars were about story and character--and so you could have something similar with more of a dramatic depth maybe.
I have said it before--the real stars of Star Wars were the technicians. The FX crew, and especially Ralph McQuarrie. I think he put more butts in seats than anyone else by his costume and production design as well as the ship designers.
TIE fighter especially. There had never been a spaceship like that.
Maybe in a Japanese movie.
People who had zero interest in sci-fi went to see it because of the unique visual and sound experience.

I wonder what Lew Wasserman must have thought when Star Wars became such a huge hit . His company MCA could have had Star Wars . But he decided to pass on it. He had the opportunity to work not only work with with George Lucas but Steven Spielberg as well . What an alliance that would have been, MCA would been elevated to even greater hights.