Everyone needs a conspiracy theory....

viZ, I had nothing to being with except contentiousness... thanks for taking my gibes in good spirits.

Egg, If you had a Valyrian Steel Blade would you use a morningstar? Yeah, that's what I thought.
 
Feeling frisky eh Boaz? Of all the points I make thats the one you decide discredits the whole argument? Thats the point of discourse you wish to embark upon?

Yer right of course (go ahead and parse this bit out and quote me every chance you get)

What if its a Valyrian Morningstar?

Could I justify its use then?

This is my last post for a little bit. Im getting on a plane soon.
 
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I'm actually surprised we don't see more types of Valyrian weapons. We've seen swords, of course. There was one dagger and then we heard about a Valyrian axe on Dragonstone (or was it one of the other islands surrounding Dragonstone?). That's really it.
 
Egg, mayhaps I was not clear above... Given a choice between a regular morningstar and a Valyrian Steel blade, which would a knight of Westeros choose? The Valyrian every time.

Valyrian steel has two amazing properties in my opnion. First, it is very lightweight yet very strong. Jon and Brienne both marvel at how fast their cuts and parries seem to be with a Valyrian steel sword compared to the regular steel swords they've been used to. The light weight makes the wielder into a faster swordsman than he was previously... plus I think there is an added benefit of a psychological advantage added in. The wielder thinks I'm faster now, so I'm better.

Second, Valyrian steel can be sharpened to an unbelievable and an unequaled extent. This edge allows the wielder to cut into regular steel. It makes a perfectly full plated knight with a shield seem suddenly vulnerable. Jaime remembered Ser Barristan's duel with Simon Toyne, the Smiling Knight... Toyne had to stop and get a new sword because after so much hard fighting his own had become blunted. I get the feeling that never happens with Valyrian steel. The added psychological detriment is imposed upon the opponent... Oh no, that thing will cut my wooden shield to ribbons! I need help or I need to run away... NOW!

The total psychological benefit is... I'm faster than I ever was! I have a weapon that will cause fear in my opponent! I'm unbeatable!

I can see how the weight of Valyrian steel could make a morningstar faster. I can see how armor could be improved also because of the light weight. But both would be missing out on the second key aspect of Valyrian steel... the blade's edge.

Yes, we do hear of an axe and at least one dagger made from Valyrian steel. The axe most certainly benefits from both the weight and the edge. I don't know that daggers suffer from weight issues, but putting that edge on a weapon made for stabbing would certainly help.

Now Egg, you make good arguments for Jeor's giving Longclaw to Jon over Maege. I can buy his shift in thinking, priorities, and allegiance from that of a minor baronial family to that of the military order for the salvation of the world. I agree that is what GRRM intends for us to see (and I agree with it on the surface and I'll probably make your arguments for you in the following sentences), but I'm playing the devil's advocate somewhat by wondering how the patriarch of a landed medieval family, a man of minor peerage, could just give away his familiy's most valuable heirloom. Not even the Lannisters had a Valyrian Steel blade, but the Mormonts somehow did. That symbol of power, nobility, and honor is not something to be lightly dismissed or tossed aside.

In bestowing Longclaw upon Jon Snow, his steward, his squire, and his body servant, the Old Bear must have finally (if not previously) taken the psychological step that the work of the Night's Watch superceded even that of his own family. I know that the NW takes vows of renunciation of family and bonds of loyalty from their previous lives, but merely obeying the rules and believing them in the core of one's soul are two different things.

I seem to recall that Mormont once said to Jon something like, "Your father sent you to us." The Old Bear seemed to view Jon as this generational gift of the Starks to the NW. Benjen had been the last generation's gift. Ben was intelligent, well trained, capable as a leader, and had influence with the Starks. So Mormont wanted that to continue through Jon.

Edit: Hope your flight is a safe one, Egg. Godspeed.
 
I think the Old Bear gave Jon the sword for a very very simple reason: The right man deserved the right blade. Simple as that. He owed Jon for saving his life. Not just from a would be human attacker, but from an unnatural thing from the grave. The very stories that for 8,000 years were told to curdle ur blood etc etc ..

His very son had disgraced his house and fled. He probably thought he never would see his son again considering that if his son shows up in Westeros he is a dead man. Especially since everyone knows Ned Starks rep for holding up honor and delivering punishment. He also wasnt extremely close to those of his house that remained. He hadnt seen them in decades.

I know I wouldnt want to leave a glorious weapon like that after I died, not knowing who it would go to or what would become of it. So why not give it to ur successor, the very person who not only saved ur very life, but was able to provide u with some of the answers to fight these creatures that ur watch had long forgotten .... Fire and Blood

Fire for real, I just like that house motto so much :p
 
Ok, I forgot to post my Benjen comment above with my Longclaw one. So, Lyanna is NOT Benjen, Boaz. There are many parts in the books especially with Ned PoV that show she died. All of them have to do with his own thoughts and feelings never out loud. He sure as hell wouldn't lie to himself in his own head. Lyanna in her bed of blood, the life leaving her eyes, Reed finding him much later still holding Lyannas hand, she wanted to be buried alongside her bro and dad, how Jaimes poV never mentions anything about another stark dying besides the lord and brandon, Some dreams of ned and even Theons where Lyanna is crying blood or sitting at a banquest along other dead people and soon to be dead people with her own gore splattered on her etc etc.

Have u been working too hard lately and that is why u posted that? Out of boredom or simple insomnia or the very opposite drove u to that theory?? :p Tell me that was the reasons, give me a reason just don't say u believe that theory dear Boaz ... please?
 
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I believe that Lyanna is Coldhands as much as I believe that the Queen of Thorns is actually a Faceless Man.
 
Boaz said:
Tysha, very intriguing. But my feeling is that the ravens are just ravens and not CotF. I think the possibility that the CotF have the warging ability and use it to "see" and "act" through the raven as much more likely.

I've always wondered how the ravens knew where to go. In our world, homing pigeons are born in one area and then taken away to be used solely for the purpose of bringing a message back to that specific place of their birth. In ASOIAF, I get the feeling that the ravens just go where they are told to go. Of the rookeries at Dragonstone and Castle Black, do you think that they really kept specific ravens to travel to scores of different castles? Stannis sent his message to dozens, if not hundreds of castles. Seems kinda expesive and complicated... I think we'd have heard of raven resending services if this was true. No, I think the ravens have some special ability to allow them to go where they are sent.
Click to expand...

Wasn't there a line where they were on the Fist (or maybe earlier, but I thought it was when Mormont took the Rangers out in search of Benjen) and Sam had to try to keep the ravens straight... there was mention that the birds in one cage went to one place, and the birds in another cage went to another place, and so forth and so on.... is that not how homing pigeons work? Not that I can speculate to the author's intentions... so much is left to the imagination...
 
Boaz said:
I believe that Lyanna is Coldhands as much as I believe that the Queen of Thorns is actually a Faceless Man.
Click to expand...

How 'bout this... what if Coldhands is the Winter King that Bran speaks of to Jojen and Meera, before they meet up with Sam and Gilly when they come up through the well. It kind of fits... The whole story of the 'man' could explain how he knows the secrets of the wall, but is forbidden to pass beyond it - to the 'living' side.
 
Boaz said:
I don't remember this Winter King...
Click to expand...

I can't remember the exact details... Bran was talking about a Lord Commander of the wall that was entranced by a beautiful woman with milk white skin and brilliantly sparkling blue eyes. He should have let her pass beyond his sight, but he could not, so he rushed down from the wall and took her to wife and gave her his seed. The created an army of little zombies or whatever the children of whites would be called, and they ruled for about a decade, then a hero whose name currently eludes me, slew him/them and the men of the wall were free from the terrible bondage they had endured during the 'King & Queen's' reign. I don't recall mention of the bodies being burned, so they could have remained in-tact. It would fit that this man could be Coldhands. He is/was a man of the Watch, he knew the secrets of the wall - being Lord Commander and all, and the sorcery he was enveloped in could not only keep him alive/dead still, but prevent him from passing to the 'living' side of the wall.

I can find the exact passage, but I won't be able to do it until late tonight or tomorrow. Unless of course someone else reading this post want to help a fellow member out by finding it first. ; )

Right now, I'm trying to go back to the crone that told her dreams to Beric and Co... and Arya overheard about the maid with purple serpents in her hair and then something else becomes of the maid afterward. It's obvious the crone was speaking of Sansa at Joff's wedding, but I'm trying to find the exact passage to see how it all fits.

Re-reads are fantastically fun, but when the books are all so long, it can take a while to find that passage or chapter that you knew was in "X" spot, and one's impatience of waiting to get to "X" spot sends them on wild ravaging of papers... and oddly placed papercuts! D'oh!
 
Now I remember, it's in ASOS, but I don't have my books handy. So you're saying that Coldhands is a zombie Macbeth wandering the North looking for redemption? This is a new idea to me... I like new!
 
vervain_ashe said:
I can't remember the exact details... Bran was talking about a Lord Commander of the wall that was entranced by a beautiful woman with milk white skin and brilliantly sparkling blue eyes. He should have let her pass beyond his sight, but he could not, so he rushed down from the wall and took her to wife and gave her his seed. The created an army of little zombies or whatever the children of whites would be called, and they ruled for about a decade, then a hero whose name currently eludes me, slew him/them and the men of the wall were free from the terrible bondage they had endured during the 'King & Queen's' reign. I don't recall mention of the bodies being burned, so they could have remained in-tact. It would fit that this man could be Coldhands. He is/was a man of the Watch, he knew the secrets of the wall - being Lord Commander and all, and the sorcery he was enveloped in could not only keep him alive/dead still, but prevent him from passing to the 'living' side of the wall.
Click to expand...
It's the story about Night King, 13 lord commander of the night watch, man who knowed no fear. Bran thinks about him before Sam gets into the kitchen of the Nightfort with Gilly. Wildling hero is Jorammun (spelling?) and one of the Starks helped him to release Night watch from slavery. Night kings name was erased from the memory when they found out he was making sacrifices to Others. Old Nan would always finish the story that Night king was Stark, brother of the Lord that killed him.
 
Coldhands is either a Brother of the Nights Watch (random one), Benjen Stark or a Child of the Forest. Of course, that is just my humble opinion.
 
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