Everyone needs a conspiracy theory....

[Aegon the Unworthy]

This is the single greatest load of tigger-poop to ever be typed on a page. Seriously I love the thinking, and the audacity of the proposition....but really? The First Ranger was actually the First Rangerette? Seriously....? I swear sometimes your theories are like horrible car accidents Boaz....I want to look away, I know Ill be horrified...but yet Im entranced and must look all the same. Well thanks for the laugh anyhow....

Okay now for the debunking....we'll forgo the usual, men in tight confines...we'll forget that Benjen would have to be measured for armor at some point, we'll forget how quickly Arya was caught as a girl by children much less grown men.....

In Neds chapter there was an earnestness about his recollections of Jon. In fact there was one point where he realized there was something he must absolutely say to Jon....then when offered the Wall he thought...good at least I can be with Jon. At no point did he think that someone else could tell him about Jon, at no point did he thinkI can be with Jon and Lyanna (thats a throwaway because he also didnt think about Benjen), and I really thought it was Catelyn who started the ball rolling on Jon joining the Nights Watch.

Now as for Coldhands....remember the only person who has seen Coldhands and Benjen would be Bran. The only POV we have who would have seen it is Sam. In Sams POV when he wants to tell Jon about Bran he thinks something along the lines of...."How can I tell him his brother is alive and heading north with Coldhands". Clearly Bran never exclaimed "Benjen!" when they got together. Keeping that out of his voice is beyond Bran Im sure.


Really I have more to say, but isnt that enough?

I do love this thread by the way....and thank you for making me laugh yet again Boaz, keep it up.

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

I did want to add my most damning piece of debunking which I forgot to put into the original....

The Old Bear at least was a Stark Bannermen old enough to know what Benjen and Lyanna looked like. There were enough people at that one feast alone who could know the difference theres no way Benyanna even risks going.

 

[Charming Serpent]

Yeah, Boaz ... your funny sometimes

 

[Tysha]

Tysha, very intriguing. But my feeling is that the ravens are just ravens and not CotF. I think the possibility that the CotF have the warging ability and use it to "see" and "act" through the raven as much more likely.
.

That is exactly what I've meant by "eyes".
But Mormont's raven is different, he was there, with Sam, helping him, why? And he came with other ravens, that belonged to Coldhands...
And he always there, saying "kettle" "snow" "die"...
Crows and Ravens are cousins.. So maybe crows are "eyes" as well, and that how the three eyed crow knew about Bran's fall, there were lots of crows in that tower.
TK - yes that interesting point.
There is a secret connection between Black Brothers (crows) and the Children(three eyed crow, ravens, coldhands, secret door that opens only to a BB..)

Coldhands is actually Lyanna..

Wow Boaz, I think it's the craziest idea ever (except maybe the theory about Eddard throwong Ashara from the tower to keep the Jon's mother's identity secret.)
But you know what, if Alleras is Sarella mad:hate that thing) so why not

I swear sometimes your theories are like horrible car accidents Boaz....I want to look away, I know Ill be horrified...but yet Im entranced and must look all the same..

lol

 

[viZion]

Who is Sarella?

 

[MIDNIGHT]

One of the sand snakes that went to Old Town.

 

[viZion]

Oh, thanks. I've never heard that theory. I guess women pretending to be men is the theme of the week.

 

[MIDNIGHT]

Well this theory is actually a little more believable than Boaz's latest effort. Tysha posted another theory along with this one a while ago. Its quite good. I'm sure someone could post a link, since I don't know how.

 

[Boaz]

One of the sand snakes that went to Old Town.

Kinda sounds like the start of a limerick...

There once was a Sand Snake, Sarella,
Who went to spy on Tyrell-a.
They called her the Sphinx,
That sly little minx.
They never knew she's a fella.

I guess women pretending to be men is the theme of the week.

It's okay, viZ. Your secret's safe with me.

Okay, Research Monkey fetch missing link. The Sarella/Alleras<Alleras=Aegon discussion starts with Tysha's first post on page 11 and continues for the next two or three pages on The Dragon Has Three Heads. This was an awesome discussion last summer.

MID, here's how I post links. First, I find the link and copy the url address, oh something like http://wwww.Boaz'BrilliantIdeas.org, for example (of course the online editor here immediately underlines and colors my fictitious example... which I cannot seem to undo)... I copy the address by highlighting it and holding down Shift+C. Second, I type in the name of the link, oh something to the effect of Tigger's Rock. Third, I highlight Tigger's Rock. Fourth, I select the button just above this text box that says "Insert Link" when I mouse over it. It's the one with the globe in it. Fifth and finally, I paste the address in the bottom line by holding Shift+C. When you open that link box, the link line is already highlighted so you don't have to click on it... just hold down the Shift and C buttons simultaneously. Now you'll notice the words Tigger's Rock will now be in red and underlined. Viola! If a Luddite like me can do it... anyone can.

 

[MIDNIGHT]

This forum would be a sad sad place without you Boaz. You always manage to make me laugh.

 

[TK-421]

Oh, thanks. I've never heard that theory. I guess women pretending to be men is the theme of the week.

I hear the music from The Crying Game playing in the background. Oh wait, that was about men pretending to be women.

 

[Lubbock]

Robert Barathorn was a king
Of his rebellion everyone did sing
He married Cersei out of duty
But it was Jaime that got to claim her booty.
His brother was named Renly
And with a Tyrell he was o´so friendly.
Stannis was the last brother
And he was quite the bother.
Robert invited his friend Eddard to town
Foul things were going down.
Robert loved to go HUnting
Until he didnt hear the boar grunting.
Eddard knew of the incest truth
Cersei did not put on her travelling boots
Eddard failed the Game of Thrones
Sansa could only bemoan
Eddard thought taking the Black was wise
Illyn chopped off Eddards head with Ice
So ends the first tale of intrigue and sorrow
cant wait to read book two cover to cover


..................
Blame Boaz he started

 

[Boaz]

Tiggers just bounce around... we can't be blamed if you try to follow. My point is that Lyanna is the Yentl of Westeros. Mayhaps that is why Jeor gave Longclaw to Jon... Come on, seriously now folks, Valyrian Steel blades are priceless... would someone actually give one away to a turncoat *******? No, the Old Bear knew Lya was Ben and he owed her for certain nocturnal assistance... the sword was payment.

 

[viZion]

I can't tell if you're being serious, Boaz, but I'll just act like you are . Mormont wasn't giving the blade to a turncloack *******. He was giving it to the next Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Maybe John will then give that blade to his successor.

Hm, I really only skimmed over the recent discussion about ravens and crows. Did anyone happen to mention that maybe Mormont had warging abilities and went into his raven right before he was killed?

 

[Boaz]

I'm always serious, especially when I'm not.

Mormont would have bonded with a bear, imo, before a raven.

Also, I have never understood why Mormont gave the sword to Jon instead of willing it to Maege or her successor? He either believed in the NW to his core or he was a colder hearted man than even Tywin Lannister.

 

[DeannaBelle]

Beofre the Lord Commander died, he wanted reconcilation with his son. ir at least he wanted to offer him forgiveness. The sword was a fmaily sowrd, and it should have gone to Jora - is that his name? - Mormont. Maybe it will. Jon has no children. Maybe he never will. Then again, The Lord Commander replaced the hilt with a wolf.

No, Mormont was not more coldhearted than Tywin Lannister. Not possile, ser! I think he believes not just in the NW but in Jon. Jon is a man of honor. He would do the right thing" by Mormont. he would pass it on the right person, wether that be the nextLC of the NW or back to Jora Mormont.

 

[viZion]

Mormont would have bonded with a bear, imo, before a raven.

Bears running around in castles aren't too common. If Mormont wants to keep himself close to Jon and the Night's Watch, then entering his raven's body is perfect. He plants himself in the castle and gets Jon the job of Lord Commander. Can you imagine a bear running into the room instead? It probably wouldn't have the same effect and would definitely lead to a dead bear, Janos Slynt as the new Lord Commander, and Jon in a jail cell.

 

[Boaz]

I agree that a raven is less threatening than a bear. I agree ravens are more common in castles than bears. But the comparison was made because the Mormont family emblem is a black bear on a green field. I was going for a thematic animal, not a practical one.

But on the other hand, a bear might not be as implausible as you might think. Just remember Ghost...

Bears running around in castles aren't too common.

And direwolves are?!?! Theon or Jory says in the first chapter of AGOT that no direwolves were seen south of the Wall in a hundred years.

Can you imagine a bear running into the room instead?

Can you imagine a direwolf running into the Lord Commander's room?

It probably wouldn't have the same effect and would definitely lead to a dead bear,

They never killed the direwolf.

In summary, I must say that I like to argue because I can.

 

[viZion]

Boaz, I disagree. That's it, I got nothing else.

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

First and foremost, Maege and her line are Jeor's sister and nieces.

So with that in mind I think when he signed over Bear Island to his son and took the Black to still be useful he emotionally detached himself from his ancestral holding. So when Jorah was deemed a traitor and fled the Stark justice there was a difference between the Rulers of Bear Island and his line. In his mind (and this is just getting into his psychology) his line was tainted, and the sword was likely to die with him. He already made the commitment to the Nights Watch, so when the sword came back to him, it was that line it was going to go down.

Then along comes Jon. A do-over for his one real failing as a father. I think Longclaw came out a little easy, but Jon was Jorahs heir. Longclaw was a way to solidify the relationship, a way to make the succession clear. In his mind he was handing the sword to his heir. I think its legit.

Other points to consider ...its cool for Jon to have a cool sword, Dacey and her brood dont seem to use swords (Axes and Monrningstars seemed appropro), and its a ******* Sword. Thats just a gimmee.