"Personal" question(s) to John Jarrold

[John Jarrold]

Jordan

Don't know about anyone else, but I read the opening, whether it's called 'prologue' or 'chapter 1'. But I do think that starting the book with action is often better than an information-laden build-up - the former is a hook, the latter is quite likely to get your book turned down. The phrase 'Argh, info-dump' is heard every day in SFF editors' offices...

 

[John Jarrold]

Just seen this from the Independent newspaper. Some joy for horror writers in the UK...


Independent Online Edition > Features

 

[Commonmind]

Hey there John. Myself and a good friend of mine have been working on series of novels for the past 10 years. I've recently finished the second draft of the first book and have put it away, to sit on it for a few months before re-reading, doing a final revision, and sending it out for publication. My question is, I've put a lot of work into the book and have recieved quite a bit of praise from some objective readers (individuals not closely related; friends or family) and I really think I have a chance to get published. However, I'm a bit concerned. Taking into account the basic outline of the entire story, there is a good chance we will be writing well over 7 or 8 books. Is this size project turned down purely on the basis that we are first time authors and also, does our being co-authors make a difference?

(I believe Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series was his first work)

 

[John Jarrold]

That won't get it turned down by itself. If an editor and his/her colleagues LOVE the book, they'll consider it seriously. Joint authors can be an issue with some publishers (I worked with one sales director who tried to veto any book by joint authors who weren't already bestsellers), but there are ways around that. However, first things first. If no one in mainstream publishing loves the book sufficently, it's not an issue...

 

[itsmelen]

Mr. Jarrold,

I have a hypothetical: Let's say I have an epic fantasy novel I'd like to submit, which is told from multiple points of view. So, Chapters 1 and 2 might be character A, Chapter 3 might be Character B, et cetera. Now, let's say I want to submit it to a publishing house whose submission guidelines ask for the first 3 chapters, not the entire manuscript.

Here, the issue that I see is that if the first few chapters are needed to fully introduce multiple characters, there will not be as much plot development as in a story where the groundwork can be laid using fewer words. This might equate to a submission that doesn't "grab" the reader, even if the prose itself is strong. I worry that by essentially having to write three "chapter ones" I may be giving the publisher the ammo necessary to reject my submission.

I've thought about some ways to approach this, but all seem to present different problems. If I re-arrange the first chapters so that the first three all focus on one character, the publisher is missing out on the world that I've built; it's analagous to trying to describe the entire U.S. after seeing one city. If I go as is, the publisher will see more of the world I've built, but may wonder if it's going anywhere. I do not want to hasten the plot or put in little benign cliffhangers (like ending chapter 2 with "the moonlight reflected off the eyes in the shadow, and he knew he was not alone" only to start chapter 3 with "and it was his dad, just coming to say hey and not posing a threat or advancing a storyline."). I DO have a prolouge, which is fast-paced as it is set at the end of a war, but by including that one of the protagonists will be cut out of the submission.


My question is: have you faced a problem like this before, and what do you think is the proper course of action? If the prose is good, should I rely on that to carry the submission, or is something semi-major going to have to happen in the first three chapters?

 

[Commonmind]

I'm no John, but I believe the three chapter submission is more an insight into the strength and style of your writing. You don't need to introduce your entire cast and outline the entirety of your plot in the first few chapters of your book, and you shouldn't try to rearrange your novel with this mentality either. After a publisher is hooked by your writing and the beginnings of your story, they'll request the entire manuscript and make a decision to publish based on that.

 

[Culhwch]

Just an aside, if your book is not structured in what traditionally would be called 'chapters', what then would you send? An extract the length of three standard chapters? And what would make a standard chapter? I'd argue there is no such thing, but imagine that it'd be two to four thousand words, meaning an extract of six to twelve thousand words...

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Culhwch, my guess is that you would need to send in something in the vicinity of 50 manuscript pages -- depending, of course, on whether or not approximately 50 pages leaves you in the middle of an extended scene.

Commonmind, I think your answer is spot-on. Although agents and editors usually ask for a brief synopsis with the sample chapters, and that's where they can get an idea of the overall story.

As for the prologue question, this is what I've done in the past (and the editor never complained): If it's chapter length, I treat it as a chapter; if it would only come to two or three pages in the book, I treat it as an epigraph at the beginning of Chapter One.

 

[John Jarrold]

Yes, absolutely right. No editor or agent expects to see your entire cast in the first three chapters. If you have a prologue, include it. Grabbing the reader with action is certainly a good way to start. The writing will come across in your chapters, and if someone is interested they'll ask to see the rest.

I did that with a new US fantasy writer, Robert Redick, last month - and last week I sold World Rights in three novels by him to Gollancz in the UK for a very good deal.

 

[Erin99]

Hi,
I hope you don't mind me adding another question to this thread (I'm new here, so please forgive me if it's wrong!). Anyway:

If a novel sent in to an agent had that "something special" (and I understand that 99.999% do not), but the author had put odd commas in the wrong places, would that put the agent off? I know that every agent will probably feel different, but I just wondered if there was some sort of cut-off point with errors on each page/the first chapter?

Also, on an unrelated issue, I'm confused about POV. If you wanted to write a novel with multiple character POVs and have each person go into some depth regarding their feelings and views, could that still be called third person limited, or is that "omniscent" territory? You see, in my second book I want to add more POVs (since my first book only has one), yet I'm not too sure which POV that would be classed as. Can anyone enlighten me?

Thanks in advance! ^_^

Sarah

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

The way that commas are used is in a state of flux at the moment, so no one is going to fault you on the occasional misplaced comma. Wretched grammar, punctuation, and spelling throughout is another matter. That doesn't seem to be a problem for you (going by what you've posted), so I think you're safe in that regard.

John, of course, will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Erin99]

The way that commas are used is in a state of flux at the moment, so no one is going to fault you on the occasional misplaced comma. Wretched grammar, punctuation, and spelling throughout is another matter. That doesn't seem to be a problem for you (going by what you've posted), so I think you're safe in that regard.

John, of course, will correct me if I'm wrong.

Thank you! I've read so many books, websites, etc, and it all comes across very confusing. I've had to just send my novel off regardless and hope for the best!

 

[John Jarrold]

Absolutely agree with Teresa. I was recently discussing commas with an old friend who was also a senior editor in London publishing for many years - we agreed that usage varies and every editor has their own ideas! But yes, grammar, etc, must be right...

 

[Erin99]

Thank you! You've both made it clear. I least now I won't worry so much whilst waiting for the agents' responses (well, not as much...).

John, keep up the great work! Your advice is invaluable to us unpublished, aspiring authors.

 

[John Jarrold]

Thanks so much!

 

[Daniel Ionson]

Hello, John.



I have two questions for you:

1) Is there a down-side to sending out one's novel to as many publishers/agents as possible? Of course, some are preferable to others, but should an author not try a 'buckshot' tactic rather than a blow dart?



2) How does an author know if he he getting a fair deal or not? I hate to ask for $ numbers, but how is a first-time author to know if he's getting short-changed?



Thanks much,
Daniel

 

[John Jarrold]

The buckshot thing depends both on the individual author - some prefer to target single editors - and on the publishers - some won't accept multiple submissions from unagented authors.

On advances, you need to be happy with the advance, but try to talk to recently published authors to get a sense of the market. I paid first novelists (agented and unagented) less than £5000 a book more often than I paid above that, up to and including the year 2002...the publisher is there to pay what they think the book is worth, in terms of the first printrun, not what the author needs to live.

 

[Daniel Ionson]

I see.

On the payment issue, after the advance what is a reasonable range for a percentage (for first-timers)? If an author is not offered a percentage after the advance, is he probably being taken advantage of?

Thanks again,
Daniel

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

The advance is an advance against estimated royalties. So a percentage should definitely be stipulated in the contract, but if sales never reach the point where the royalties add up to the total of the advance, then no more money is due the author. On the other hand, if the book doesn't "earn out" the author still gets to keep the full advance.

More often than not, and particularly with first time authors, the book doesn't earn out, and the advance is all the writer ever sees.

For first time authors, royalties are usually 6% for mass market paperback, 10% for hardcover. They'll usually stipulate the royalties for all formats, even if they only plan to publish in mass market. The percentage may go up after a certain number of copies have sold.

 

[John Jarrold]

In the UK, standard paperback royalties are 7.5% of cover price in the home market, and 10% of the price received in export - because of huge discounts overseas. If a book is published in hardback, royalties begin at 10% at home and 10% of price received in export...as Teresa says, royalties are always part of an initial contract with a major publisher, and often don't come into play because of unearned advances.