Who will rule in Westeros at the end of ASOIAF?

[Boaz]

Do you think, at the end of ASOIAF, that the Seven Kingdoms will be united under one rule just like they were when the series started or will the Seven Kingdoms enjoy separate rulers?

Will one person rule the realm? If this is the case, then a Targaryen, Baratheon, Lannister, or a Greyjoy seem to me to have the best chances. Danaerys Stormborn has the best chance to personally unite Westeros and consolidate all power in the Iron Throne. For Stannis to rule, Rh'llor needs to defeat The Other and Rh'llor needs to prove that The Seven are weak. For Tommen or Myrcella to wear a crown, they need a powerful coalition of Lannister, Tyrell, Storm Lords, Bolton, and either Martell or Arryn. If Euron can get Dany to serve him, if Euron can get the Dragons to serve him, if Euron has more magic items up his sleeve, then he might rule in King's Landing.

I don't think the Lannister federation will last. Nor do I think that Rh'llor will prove himself as the God of Gods. Euron's scenario has too many big ifs. In my estimation, Dany has the best chance to be sole ruler of the Seven Kingdoms.

Will the realms be fragmented? Will Westeros be full of smaller kingdoms and principalities as it has been for all of it's history (exepting the last 300 years)?

The backbone of the Seven Kingdoms are the lands and Houses of the Andals... Highgarden (Southlands), Lannister (Westerlands), Arryn (the Vale). The Andals displaced the First Men. The Andals worship The Seven. Baratheon (Stormlands, Crownlands) and Tully (Riverlands) seem to me to be a mix of Andal and First Men, though they have adopted The Seven. But three areas and peoples are definitely not Andals... Stark (the North), Greyjoy (Iron Islands), Martell (Dorne)... and all of these three have strong streaks of independence.

Starks are First Men and they worship the Old Gods. The Northmen have been a separate kingdom, a bastion against Andal agression.

I don't know if it is ever said, but I suspect the Greyjoys are also First Men... though they worship the Drowned God. It seems that from their Islands they ruled the Riverlands through most of history.

The Martells are Rhoynish. The Rhoynar invaded south Westeros and carved out a kingdom. Iirc, the Dornish have mostly adopted the faith of the Andals, though some still worship their Goddess (sorry, I've forgotten).

And I also suspect the Wildlings and the Mountain Clans to be First Men.

All that is to say that these three regions and peoples (coincidentally on the fringes of Westeros) have the best chances to re-establish autonomous Kingdoms. The Greyjoy have already done this. The North is under Bolton rule, supported by the Lannister coalition. But Stark loyalties run high, and when a Stark heir emerges the North will bleed. Robb Stark declared himself King in the North... his younger siblings might do the same. And as for Dorne, if the Martells can ally with the Targaryens, then don't look for an independant Dorne. But if Quentyn cannot marry Dany, then look for the Martells to declare independance of Lannister rule.

So the problem left is... will the Andalish coalition of Lannister, Tyrell, Frey, Bolton and Storm Lords hold together? Will the Andal oppostition of First Men and Rhoynar overcome their mutual resentment? I don't think so... the Tyrells, Arryns, Freys and Lannister distrust each other too much to form a lasting bond that will defeat the Greyjoys, Starks, and Martells... none of the latter (maybe Euron with Dragons) pose a threat to take over all Seven Kingdoms. Only a major national threat of a political nature (the religious nature of The Other does not phase the Andals) will keep them united under Lannister leadership... and Dany is this threat.

Even among the Andals, some prefer the Valyrian rule of the Targaryens to that of another Andal.

So as for a prediction... I predict that every thing south of the Neck will be ruled from King's Landing. I predict Winterfell will be an autonomous kingdom. I predict the Iron Islands will be ravaged and left a smoking ruin.

 

[Queen Cersei]

Well that was informative

I think Dany has the best claim and I think she should have it. She's proved herself as a good leader for a girl, and a young girl at that.

I'd love to see Cersei rule but she might bear more evil sons so I'd rather her and Petyr go find a cottage somewhere and raise sheep.

If ever a Tyrell rises to the throne I shall personally write myself into the book and cut their goddamn throat.

 

[Koopa]

ironmen, are andals and first man combined i think, but the andals there took over the religion that already existed rather then push their belive of the seven.

I think Danaerys will be the final ruler, if things keep on going as they are, the others will keep on fighting among themselves, that being said though, it seems to me the North, the ironmen, and Dorne will always remain a bit independent, those three will be forced to accept a higher ruler, but only a superficial one, whom can only push his claim and power over those lands up onto a certain point. The big problem is, who will rule beside dany and after her, for if she does not appoint an successor and she truly cannot have children, nor adopt one, then the targaryen line is over (if Jon is not a tragaryen *******/if jon is not legitimized/has no children (nights watch thingie), also i am off a feeling that there will be another of the targaryen line, some remote descendant of bittersteel, whom now leeds the golden campony (or so), those dudes tyrion met with Ilyrio seems intriguing.

 

[Koopa]

----laughs----

A tyrell is rising to the throne, ones cersei in completely down and out, they will basically be holding it, k so the dimwitted Tommen is still there, but he is just a puppet

 

[YOSSARIAN]

My prediction: Bran will inhabit Hodor's body and marry Meera. Hordes of frogs will scatter from Greywater Watch and ravage all the armies of Westeros at the command of Bran. Dany's troops will arrive, led by her dragons, as the last oppositon to Greywater Watch. The dragons will breathe flames onto the raging amphibians, but the smell of cooked frog will overpower them. The dragons will gorge themselves to death on frog legs. Meera will raise her frogspear to the sky and living frogs will fall from the heavens, Magnolia-style. Book 7, titled A Reign of Frogs, will end when Dany surrenders because she has "had it with these mother*****n' frogs!"

 

[the_faery_queen]

i would throw the books into the sea if danys wins. she's horrible, in my opinion. she's cold, she's boring, i don't like a thing abotu her. boo! i don't think she has teh best claim, she's part of a line that's gone. the throne only ever stays with the personw ho can hang onto it, so just because she is related to an old deposed monarch doesnt' really mean she has the best claim. her family couldn't keep it, after all! that means whoever replaced them has just as much right (in my mind)

i hope jon gets it. but i doubt it. other than that, i have no opinion and don't care. as long as it isn't danys!

i really don't like that girl.

 

[Koopa]

If Dany can reclaim she is then the righful heir is she not, wether she comes from that line or not. Personally I'd like it if the north and the south where split in two

 

[Werthead]

i would throw the books into the sea if danys wins. she's horrible, in my opinion. she's cold, she's boring, i don't like a thing abotu her. boo! i don't think she has teh best claim, she's part of a line that's gone. the throne only ever stays with the personw ho can hang onto it, so just because she is related to an old deposed monarch doesnt' really mean she has the best claim. her family couldn't keep it, after all! that means whoever replaced them has just as much right (in my mind)

i hope jon gets it. but i doubt it. other than that, i have no opinion and don't care. as long as it isn't danys!

i really don't like that girl.

If Jon gets it the ending will suck. Plus he can't get the throne unless the Wall is destroyed and the Night's Watch with it (which are the only things that can release him from his oath).

You also forget the dragons. Aegon forged the Seven Kingdoms into one nation using dragons. The really big problems for the Targaryens begun once the dragons died (the failed invasion of Dorne, Aegon the Unworthy's rule, the Blackfyre Rebellion, the Great Spring Sickness, Bloodraven as Hand, the War of the Ninepenny Kings, the Tragedy of Summerhall, the reign of the Mad King). Thus Dany's use of dragons may be the only thing that can weld the Seven Kingdoms together again to resist the invasion of the Others.

I think the ending could be ironic. Dany dies so the 'rightful' crown passes to House Baratheon. If the prophecy comes true and Myrcella and Tommen die as well (and I think Stannis' death is inevitable), that leaves Shireen or Robert's bastards with the best claim both through the Baratheon line or the Targaryen.

 

[Queen Cersei]

Ach, faery, we disagree...and you were the only one who liked cersei . I love Dany, Jon can't get the throne anyway he's too boring.

Also...Dragons!!!! They are so cool.

And Kiwi, TYRELLS WILL BURN IN HELL BEFORE I SEE THEM ON THE THRONE!!!! I SPIT ON THEM ALL!!!!

I really hate them. *shudders*

 

[Koopa]

is garlan so bad, he seems to be an awesome swordsman, besides tyrells and lannisters are the same, so you probably only hate them for the rivalry with the one whol will go down in history as The Mad Incestuous Regent

 

[stainedglassanmarble]

dany and jon, says 50$ monopoly money

 

[Boaz]

So here's my guess.

Dany will conquer, but she'll need two spouses just like Aegon did. Those two will be either Jon and Tyrion, Jon and Sansa, Tyrion and Sansa, Quentyn and Loras, Tommen and Shireen, or Victarion and Sansa. I assume Miri's prophecy regarding Dany's fertility to be true... so Dany needs one of her consorts to be a woman so that her heir will be the offspring of her husband (and wife).

If Tyrion and Jon are not chosen at Dany's mates, they will probably serve on the Small Council with Varys, Bran, Willas, Howland, Black Walder, and Loras (if he's not chosen to be a queen, if he chosen to be a queen, then Podrick will be Lord Commander of the Kingsguard).

The dead will include Jaime, Cersei, Myrcella, Arya, all the Boltons, Brynden, Brienne, Mance, Margaery, Stannis, Melisandre, Doran, Euron, Theon, Aeron, Littlefinger, Barristan, Belwas, Grey Worm, Shaggydog, and Viserion.

Tyrion, Jorah, Sansa, Rickon, Sam, Jon, Dany, Asha, Podrick, Arianne, Quentyn, victarion, Dolorous Edd, Howland, Varys, Olenna, and Sandor will all survive the series' end.

Rickon will rule in Winterfell, Loras, Brienne, or Pod will command the Queensguard. Asha will rule the Iron Islands... what is left of them.

I say this in all confidence, because that is what will happen in my mind. There won't be a final book. I've seen Martin's picture. He will not live long enough to finish the series... so we'll all have to imagine the ending. And each person's will be different.

 

[YOSSARIAN]

Don't even insinuate that the series will not be finished before Martin dies...that is cruel to his loved ones and his many obsessive fans. And I disagree about Jaime-he will be alive and exalted by the end of the series.

 

[Boaz]

Yossa, you are correct, my words were insensitive to Martin and his family. I see how the words are flippant. I apologize for hurting them.

Yet, I was not trying to be mercilessly injurious. In AGOT, the Old Bear teaches Jon the value of preparing for difficult situations and Tyrion teaches Jon the lesson of admitting hard truths.

Since the publication of AGOT, there have been three sequels in nine years. If he keeps up the pace, he'll be 67 years of age when the seventh book is published.

Granted I know nothing of his health, his family's history of health, his diet, his excercise. Nor have I ever met him, seen him in person, nor viewed him on video.

But having seen the pictures of him on his own website, I'd say he's overweight. (If the picture of him with the tiger cub is recent, then I think he's looking old at fifty-eight. Let me also say that most people put their most flattering pictures online, not their least.) Comparing apples to oranges, my body mass index is 28%... 30% is considered obese... and I believe I look much slimmer than Martin.

I don't know his work and travel schedule, but I imagine there's some level of stress on him now. I think most of us read his update when President Bush was re-elected... Martin was stressed over it!

I've personally known a number of men in their early and mid sixties whom have had cardiovascular problems from obesity and stress.

In not so flippant terms, I would not personally be surprised if Martin is unable to finish ASOIAF due to health complications... and I'd really like him to finish the story, because I'm really into it.

 

[YOSSARIAN]

Wow...that is an excelllent apology. I fear you may have taken my slight admonition too harshly. When you mentioned him passing away before the series is finshed, I immediately thought of how sad that would be. Not because of how it would affect his loved ones, but simply because the Song would be incomplete. Then I was struck by how horribly selfish I was. So what seemed like me rebuking you was really me rebuking the collective obsessiveness of the many ASOIAF junkies. Here's to Martin living to 100, even if he still doesn't finish the Song.

P.S-Mr. Martin, please finish the Song!

I know you have Jaime on your dead list-I really hope you're wrong. If he continues to travel along an honorable path I can see his redemption as a bright spot in a world that seems to be falling into decay.

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Gah! and I do mean Gah!

How can you want redemption for Jaime....let me type this slowly so you understand...he pushed a child out a window so he could continue boffing his sister. I dont care what kind of nice crap he does after the fact....he pushed a child out a window.

And as for Dany and all that rightful heir crap. She is still a warmonger at this point killing people for her own political ambitions. She has never known the throne, she has merely heard from third parties that she should be Queen...so shes not reclaiming anything. Admittedly what she is doing in the slaves cities is noble, but if she brings war Westeros she is a power-hungry invader and usurper.

So end result for predictions....the Wall is destroyed by the Other...Jon reunites most of the realm to fight them, including the troops brought by Dany but dies during the Ultimate battle....sacrificing himself for those no-good chits in power....the people proclaim for Dany as the only alternative to the things they have on throne now...Dany accepts not as a conqueror but as a liberator (and nary a blade is raised)

and somewhere George W Bush says "Oh thats how yer sposed to do it"

 

[YOSSARIAN]

I've always had trouble getting past what Jaime did to Bran. That is pretty much unforgivable-unless Bran himself chooses to forgive him. However, I don't think the issue is me wanting Jaime to find redemption-he seems to be heading down that road whether or not any of like it. Jaime's biggest flaw is that he was so sure of himself that he never realized he was always being controlled by someone else, and there are examples of his good intentions being thwarted by others. He wants to have the honor of protecting his king-his father forbids it but then uses it for his own ends. He wants to protect Aerys' wife from Aerys' abuse-the noble Kingsguard stops him. He kills Rossart to prevent Kings Landing from being destroyed and then gains the throne for the rebellion-Ned and Robert crap on him and his father never makes any attempt to help Jaime overcome the stigma of being the Kingslayer. Not to mention how Cersei used his lower brain to manipulate him. Now, after some hard lessons he seems to want to do the right thing (not for his own gain-he justs wants to do what is right for its' own sake.) He's got a hell of a mountain to climb but is determined to do it. I look for him to offer loyalty to the Starks or the Targaryens, quite possibly pitting him against his family, as a final act of reparation.

Quick defense of Dany-her desire to rule Westeros seems to be less motivated by her former rage at the usurpers and more motivated by her desire to bring justice to her people. Not the cold, unfeeling justice of Stannis either. Here in our world justice is in such short supply that I can't help but root for her to become the good queen of Westeros.

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Ya see Yoss....I can call ya Yoss right?

I have no problems with Jaimes actions involving Aerys or Rossart (thats the hand he killed right?), he explains his actions suitably, heck in his own mind he sounds almost noble (and that is the beauty of Martins writing, everyone has a prism to be seen through) ...I have no problems with his lying to Tyrion for his father...I dont even have a problem with his incestous affair with Cersei (that seems to be more accepted there than here)....but at no point does he show remorse for knocking Bran off the ledge....he offers this caveat "that was a trifle...rash".....thats it. Until he says or thinks "Ya know what, pushing that boy off the balcony was an evil despicable act and I have a lot to do to try and make amends", everything else he does is so much dross. It is so easy to forget how completely evil that action is in all his subsequent chapters.

As for Dany, if you can accept the idea that Robert (at one time) had the popular support of the majority of nobles (I dont even want to get into what the people wanted....), and Dany wants revenge on the "Usurper" and his cronies just as much as she wants anything else, and that she knows very little of what the social clime is in Westeros....then it becomes clear that she wants either revenge or her "birthright".

Now the question is what does she do when she gets there and realizes most of her objects of hate are dead...Robert, Ned, Jon Arryn, Tywin.....what is she going to do then?(Im sure theres a couple left for her to hate so dont nitpick the details) Is she going to have people die in her name so she can crown herself Queen of a broken throne? If she wages war on a populace for the sake of ruling them she becomes no more than a petty tyrant who has no desire to improve the lives of her peasants. Dont forget in war its not the nobles who die by the thousands...

Of course all this is moot because the Other(s) is(are) coming and Dany and her Unsullied are going to be the last capable fighting men on the continent.

All the above is purely speculative opinion

 

[Koopa]

he has written most of aDwD it seems, so only two remain, now even if he where to die i am pretty sure he has a strory plan somewhere, not detailed, perhaps even a bit contradictive, but some sort of general idea of what will happen in the last books, so that wll probably be published post-natal, if the unlucky event of a early death would arise. Kinda like what the son of Tolkien did, he published the silmarillion and unfinished stories after tolkien death.

So i would not totally despair about never finding out the ending, though offcourse the details we then shall never know

 

[Werthead]

is garlan so bad, he seems to be an awesome swordsman, besides tyrells and lannisters are the same, so you probably only hate them for the rivalry with the one whol will go down in history as The Mad Incestuous Regent

Garlan appears to be very gallant, but re-reading that scene at Margaery and Joffrey's wedding in ASoS puts a very different spin on things. Garlan talks a bit to Tyrion...maybe distracting him? And something happened a few seconds later to Joffrey... Maybe the Queen of Thorns had Garlan on her side and he isn't as gallant as he first seems (pure speculation btw)...

Re: GRRM and his health. I have met GRRM (last October, at a signing) and he is quite overweight by British standards (but probably not American; I've seen Americans considerably larger). However, GRRM himself did say this was due to his lack of an exercise regime in the furious attempt to get AFFC out of the door and completed. Apparently he dropped a few pounds due to his punishing six-month signing schedule and is planning to adopt a more rigorous exercise regime in the future. He did have a full medical last year which didn't turn up any problems. Given Robert Jordan's recent health problems (Jordan and Martin are friends), GRRM seems even more adamant that he's going to get his health back in order. I've met GRRM's other half Parris and I think we can rely on her to make sure GRRM keeps his health in order.

If GRRM dies though, he's said we are "S**t out of luck." There is no story plan written down anywhere. There's a few maps of the eastern continent we haven't seen yet, there's some geneaologies and timelines he's sketched out, but most of the time if he wants to look up some detail on a minor House he talked about five years ago, he'll look it up on Westeros.org rather than look it up in his notes as they are not that extensive.