5.03: Ascension

[shiloh]

Well the Tollans can build gates, too.

I'm thinking Oma and Orlin are either Ancients or Furlings.

I agree, Sky, I think there's gonna be a *ton* of fanfic coming out of this one. Most of them will be angst Sam-trust-issue stories, but I hope someone does one that follows Jack, Teal'c, and Daniel to the "place where humans do battle in an arena of jello". . . that's very high on my list of SCENES I WANT TO SEE!

 

[KatDonovan]

Oh God Yes, Shiloh! I would absolutely love to see that scene!!! The writers are so mean to tease us with stuff like that

oh and didn't the Nox have to help the Tollans build their gate? Seems the all mighty Tollans can't do everything by themselves.

 

[SamInChicago]

Not sure if the Nox actually helped the Tollans build that gate or merely helped the Tollans get to that world.

 

[tatter]

i think the tollans managed on their own. the nox don't seem to
deal with technology too much-they just do their magic stuff.

 

[jsc]

Aw... Save you money and Visit T-Man and me in LA by airplane!

 

[nic]

Originally posted by jsc
Aw... Save you money and Visit T-Man and me in LA by airplane!

LOL! That would be great.
Stargate, travel in style!

 

[ShelbyS]

Originally posted by SamInChicago
I was very frustated/disappointed in the teams reaction to Sam. After being falsely accused of being insane in Legacy, you'd think that at least Daniel would want her to know that he was behind her and Jack's response to it all was terrible.

I totally agree. Jack's reaction to it was really bad. In fact I thought the whole Jack/Sam interaction in this ep was way off. Okay, so he pulled through in the end, and he was kinda nice when he asked her if she wanted him to hang out for a while, but the rest of the time he was so cold. I though he would have respected and trusted her more than that instead of just passing of the fact that she's a little nuts.

I'm not talking about the ship here, the shippyness aspect of their relationship aside I thought he definetly wasn't acting like a good team mate. In the breifing room when Sam requests permission to join the SG16 mission he gets quite testy with her. His tone of voice to her in this whole ep is really tough and kinda mean in some places. I really don't get why that is? SG-1 is usually very close and care about each other SO much, but it seemed to all be out of whack in this ep.

I also wasn't happy with the way Hammond acted about Sam either. I thought he would have been more angry about the whole surveillance thing.

 

[nic]

In the breifing room when Sam requests permission to join the SG16 mission he gets quite testy with her
Yeh, that's what I thought.
Also the bit that follows this when Sam confides in him that she doesn't really have anything else to do. He just seemed really cold in his response before walking off.

I find it hard to believe that she wouldn't have anything to do.
I remember in up-grades she was wanting to finish writing her book, but had trouble finding the time to work on it.
Plus, when Jack wants to take her fishing, she decides to spend time fixing up a motorbike.

I think she's got plenty to do!

 

[jsc]

Hi. Shelby,

If you think of it as Jack trying to keep her safe on off SG-16 it makes sense! Hammond and Jack have to follow proceedures and rules..So the psych eval had to be done...and about de Lancie and his team survaling Sam.... well they overrode Hammond's veto... He wasn't happy but with orders from higher up you can only protest so much in the military... He could have resigned... and that wouldn't help Sam or SG-1.

 

[nic]

Bless our Hammy, he was placed in an uncomfortable position.... so to speak.

 

[skydiver]

i still can't wait for someone to write 'the guys grovel for forgiveness' fic. there have been a couple but nothing really of the smarmy groveling i want to see.

without giving anything away, if you've seen fifth man you gotta wonder if hte attitude expressed there has it's roots in this eps.
here sam follows procedure and gets treated like a boob...anyone wanna take a bet the next time her orders stray into the gray area she's less likely to do the 'right' thing adn do the 'best' thing?

 

[tatter]

i agree sky. and the guys should grovel for their not so nice treatment of her. she always sticks up for them

 

[Nora]

Originally posted by tatter
i agree sky. and the guys should grovel for their not so nice treatment of her. she always sticks up for them

Well, nobody stood up for Danny in Legacy, they all thought he was crazy and didn't search for any other reason/excuse for his behavior.

 

[skydiver]

you do have a point there. but...when jack and teal'c said they were in a time loop...everyone believed them.

 

[jsc]

Yes, that was because there were two voices saying that.... theygot evaluated by Janet but not the psych test that Sam had to go through. I think because it was one and she was female and Janet could find nothing that they did the tests after they couldn't find Orlin.

Nick Ballard and Sam have something in common now!

 

[Anni]

You know what? They don't have to be nice to each other... they're a military team for god's sake... Jack for the first time acted like a REAL CO and so did General Hammond, and there is nothing in military regs to say that any of them have to apologise for anything they did to her. They were right to stop her going offworld or even on duty until they did an investigation into whether she had been compromised. They were right to interrogate her fellow team members to make sure THEY hadn't been compromised and General Hammond did the only thing he could do in the face of the situation.

And senior military personnel NEVER grovel to their subordinates just because they had to do their duty. Yes the team care about each other, although I still maintain it doesn't make for an effective covert team...... but what do I know? Danny would probably apologise for not believing her and even Teal'c might in his own inimitable fashion. But Jack wouldn't and shouldn't apologise for doing his job, and neither should Hammond.

They're in the military for crying out loud...... Soldiers don't go around apologising to each other all the time......

She's a bloody soldier..... she has to take the rough with the smooth and be a 'man'...

Of course, it would have the effect of making her more inclined to defy orders too... she's only human.

I thought Jack and Hammond treatment of her and the way they spoke to her was just right.

 

[SamInChicago]

Anni, you are absolutely right, but one of the reasons I think many of us like the show so much is because although they are military, their relationships go beyond a mere team. In the real military, both Sam and Jack would probably have been courtmartialed by now, Daniel would probably not be on the team and Teal'c certainly wouldn't. It may be totally military to act the way they did, but it's not SG-1like. Given the established way the team acts and interacts (the Daniel/Jack talk from Shades of Gray, they way they all banded together and defied orders in both Sepent's Grasp and 2010, Jack's reaction in Entity, and Sam reaction just this week in The Fifth Man), it was out of character of them not to be more trusting. As to the "nobody believed Daniel" thing, Daniel was acting nuts. He was crying and attacking people, not just elling a seemingly outrageous story. No, there needed to be some serious groveling. Fan fic writers, go to work!

 

[Anni]

*sigh* I was just hoping that for once, something I really liked didn't turn into a whussy, emotional pile of crap and that it also retained some credibility somehow. But it seems that I am just one voice crying in the wilderness.

I can see that the mostly female viewers who want all of the emotional stuff in it hold sway for a lot of the time. I am hoping against hope that the writers and producers of the show don't elect to produce the grovelling scene because it would be pathetic.

I understand that because of earlier episodes team development the fans have come to expect that these people would care for each other, and believe me any military team develop relationships when they live and work together in a dangerous environment, but those relationships stop when it comes to regulations, miltary orders and etiquette. If Jack grovels, or any of the others then it would be done in private. I don't personally think he would even do that.

Hopefully Jack would be unlikely to be shown grovelling to the extent that would satisfy the fans who ache to see it, so you may have to be satisfied with whatever the fan fic writers produce.

BTW, as my name suggests, I am female. I just don't buy into the emotional stuff. I started watching SG1 because it had a wonderful concept of aliens, menace, mystery and the idea of us little humans taking our first tentative steps into the unknown of the galaxy was fascinating.

Now, it's turned into a soap opera with the emphasis on whether Sam or any of the others have a life outside the SGC or whether they actually like each other and hang out with each other.

Having worked in close contact with my fellow team members during my time in the military, I can assure you that getting home on occasion and not having to interact with them was a wonderful and relaxing experience. They were the last people I wanted to see on my doorstep during my down time. And I liked them.... and drank and socialised to an extrent with them.

Okay....... I'll get off me soapbox now!

 

[ShelbyS]

Originally posted by Anni
[BNow, it's turned into a soap opera with the emphasis on whether Sam or any of the others have a life outside the SGC or whether they actually like each other and hang out with each other.
[/B]

I'm sorry, but I totally disagree with you there. Right from the beginning of s1 through to the end of s4 there was hardly any insight at all into the personal lives of our heros. Sure, we got tidbits along the way (Jack's past in 106_CL, Sam's relationship with her brother and father), but other than the little bits of info, I don't think there is hardly anything on their personal lives. Each ep focused on a sitution at the sgc or something happening to sg-1. And now, after Ascension, where we see Sam's house (they didn't really go into her personal life), hardly an emphasis. We still know very little about these people outside the SGC.
A soap opera? far from it!

And senior military personnel NEVER grovel to their subordinates just because they had to do their duty. Yes the team care about each other, although I still maintain it doesn't make for an effective covert team........I thought Jack and Hammond treatment of her and the way they spoke to her was just right.

Another point, I don't think you can compare the SGC to a normal military situation or normal military protocol. They work in a very special environment under very special cirumstances. As General Hammond once said to Davis, "You've got a lot to learn about the way we do business here". Even Hammond knows that there are an unspoken special set of rules that can come into play. As for them caring about each other and not being able to maintain an effective team, i disagree, just look at Serpent's Lair, Small Victories, Double Jeopardy or Enemies. They function great as a team, but they don't let there emotions take over, that dosn't mean that there isn't a deep caring nature in their relationship or team dynamic. in fact i think it adds depth to the situation they are stuck in when they care about each other like in OUt of Mind/Into the Fire.

 

[Anni]

Because it isn't a regular military team, the rules apply even more.

And the episodes have only very loosely focussed on the original concept of Stargate. Which wasn't only about the team, but was also supposed to be about a huge enemy and exploring out there. What we get is 'SG1 kicks butt'. And a focus on 'character development' rather than whether the earth is actually in danger.

I also still don't think either Jack or General Hammond were unduly nasty to Sam. Their behaviour was merely professional.... for once.

But you know? Why do I even bother to put any points forward at all? You all have it so tightly sewn up and I don't even have the episodes downloaded or on video, so I don't watch them every day that dawns, or nitpick over whether Sam suits her hair short or long..... or even whether they should grovel to her big time.

I wouldn't say I don't care, or I wouldn't bother to trawl these forums. But I still would like some of the original focus back. And I keep watching in the hopes that it will.

Of course, I have two hopes..... Bob Hope, and no hope....

I know that. So why did I bother to open my mouth in the first place.

*Anni signing off*