SGC Point of origin

[System Lord Gypsy]

I have thought about that and if Sam could find then so could you average guard.

Sorry. Just being picky here.
Gypsy

 

[PTeppic]

Originally posted by Jedispara
on which planet.. because in the original movie and Children of the Gods there is a DHD on both Abydos and Chulak... so what is this about??? what are you talking about

There are NO DHDs in the film.

They are only introduced in COTG, and lead to Carter's infamous "MacGyver" speech.

 

[Jedispara]

ermmm... we will have to try to figure it out.... any ideas???

 

[PTeppic]

Originally posted by Jedispara
well he was also found below the DHD so one has to assume that he had been there longer... perhaps he was a traiter and they knew that there was a gate in an extremely cold place so they sent him there as a punishment for being a traiter... just theorizing here!

Also thinking aloud: I don't think he was actually BELOW the DHD, just buried near it, and because he is physically smaller, is buried under more ice than the DHD?

Originally posted by BC-Lord-Gypsy
The problem with that is they would have had to have been able to stop him dialing out and we know from solitudes that the gate had some power which is why Sam was able to get most of the chevrons to activate. At the time the Serpent guard would have been left there we can only hypothesise that there would have been enough power to activate the last couple of chevrons and activate the gate.

Gypsy

Well, I was going to say: "perhaps he was left where he was killed", but then thought "no, couldn't be, since there was no second uprising". But then I thought "why not - we just haven't been told, and SOMETHING must have stopped the Goa'uld coming back which would probably have stopped us becoming so technically advanced!"

Then I went on... in fact, the second gate usage is ALL pretty suspect:

a) it does not appear to be Goa'uld practice to just "leave" a planet - they tend to punish disobedience, hard, and if that doesn't work, annihilate!
b) their main resource (hosts and potential jaffa) was still very abundant, if not thriving!
c) the gate was not buried (i.e. a sign of a second uprising), except in ice - perhaps enough to block the event horizon, which has since melted [this is perhaps the best guess!]
d) we have peoples taken from 5th century Asia/Mongolia, 13th century Europe/England and 18/19th century United states (that I can spot remember) so the Goa'uld theoretically were still active, except that most of these are actually outside of "mainstream" Goa'uld activity... [Perhaps that is the key, these later peoples were all removed by some other race. Only the "Christians" had Goa'uld interference, and that was by an Unas who perhaps found them by accident]
e) we have no written evidence for any Goa'uld activity after the Egyptian period (apart from Seth)
f) its is slightly odd why Ra did not simply come back with more firepower and apply chastisement to what were militarily really a very primitive people

In summary: although a second gate was brought in by the Goa'uld and they perhaps punished the Egyptians, they did not simply un-bury the old gate (that would not have been difficult at all), but set up a new one in one of the most remote areas of the planet (at a time when Earth was barely using bows and arrows) which was subsequently buried in ice which they did not investigate this time. All pretty flimsy, just to get a second gate! I think someone thought, "lets have a second gate for some later plot fun" - though up the details for "Solitudes" and got on with it, without thinking through sufficiently the details they had come up with. Probably not, given how little time there is for each show.

 

[Jedispara]

you have some really good points there.... what about this.... the gate from solitudes was the original gate placed on earth... only when the gould's came they found it was buried, so the placed one in Egypt.... since we have no idea which one cam first we don't know whether the Asgard had something to do with it, before they we haveing problems wiht teh Repilcators...

Thor stated in a later episode that they had visited them frequently over there history.... so why not think that the Asgard had something to do with the Goa'uld leaving?

 

[PTeppic]

I agree entirely with the quite obvious assumption we are making that the Solitudes gate is the second one.

However, the evidence does support it being second: all the legends (i.e. the plot of the film) are that the Giza gate was brought (or used) by Ra when he first arrived. Also, there is a dead Jaffa at the Antarctica gate ice, which means they abondoned it ...

... spur of the moment thinking out loud and online: it WAS the first gate, but was almost buried in ice. The Goa'uld just managed it and came through, sending one or more Jaffa who subsequently either escaped into the wilderness or froze in the ice cave. A later ice-fall etc sealed the gate sufficiently to prevent further wormholes. Still intrigued, Ra came by hat'ak, and the story started....

[and even more into fantasy / fan-fic]
... which means the original gate was in Antarctica, and this is because it was the location of Atlantis (as suggested by at least one contempory book ["When the sky fell" R & R Flem-Ath]) and later froze over...

 

[Jedispara]

which would fit the evidence of where Atlantis is in real life, it would also support the theory that they were extremly advanced, what if it was a colony of the Ancients that left...

there is documented profe that it would be antarcica, i mean how else would the Greeks know that there was an island down there, since no ships went there.... there is a map that shows it before it was disocerved.... hmmm raise a few good questions...

like is the TV show a cover up that there is such a thing as a Stargate.... like the 10th episode, that would be a subconsis thing, that they are trying to say that the TV show is a cover up, sorta like a paradox.

 

[System Lord Gypsy]

Very good points, I can only assume it must have just been a plot hole, like you say, with no actual significance. Would be nice if they did a bit more with it at a later time but then we can't have everything we want.

Gypsy

 

[Jedispara]

wouldn't it be funny if they hav an episode where what i justed explained, is actually a plot....

 

[Tiberius]

Here is my opinion about the Alpha/Beta gates.

A) When dialing to a planet with two gates, the default dialer goes to the gate with the DHD.

B) If one has a disconnected DHD, it has no power, so

C) The incoming wormhole goes to the gate that is powered.

*D) If more than 2 gates have a DHD, you use the 8th Chevron to tell them apart.

 

[PTeppic]

We have no canon evidence that the eigth chevron decides the gate destination. On the contrary, there is evidence the eight chevron isn't used for anything other than long-range.

 

[System Lord Gypsy]

AS far as I could make out from the show and here it was decided that the 8th was definately just distance. WHo knows, they may decide on another use for it one day but to date they don't appear to have.

Gypsy

 

[Tiberius]

I think ZeroCool was right. How else could you dial to two stargates that are say... 60m apart? An eighth Chevron might be needed.

 

[Tiberius]

How many Chevrons are dialed to reach Tollan, PTeppic?

 

[PTeppic]

Oooh - a test, a test!

We don't see. However, if it were eight, it would have been mentioned. Something as major as that is a significant plot point. And I assume you mean Tollana!

I don't believe you COULD dial gates 60m apart. As discussed in other threads, within about 100-200 million miles, only a single gate address can be used, and will assume to be the same one. There is no practical use (on a galactic scale) for having to gates so close. They are only ever put there if one is "lost", or someone is playing silly beggars (WTSG/ITSL, N/SV).

Certainly, there is no way to distinguish between the two earth gates. Svetlana pretty much confirms this when she says very exact timing is needed, otherwise SGC staff would go to Russia, or her people would end up at the SGC. It is only the application at the GATE end, of the DHD, which allows the differentiation.

 

[System Lord Gypsy]

If you remember the only way to activate an 8th chevron is to use an energy generator. Surely it would have been mentioned if they had had to make yet another one to get to Tollan. I suppose if you had to gates, one with say, the original earth POO and one with the second it may be possible to dial from one gate to the other as the glyphs won't be exactly the same which is how the SGC managed to dial through the second gate and send a malp through to find where it was when it ws in use on the same planet as their gate {I believe the episode was touchstone}. It may be that something would stop you dialing if the gates were too close together but we have seen no evidence of this.

Gypsy

 

[Tiberius]

Question:

What would happen if you dialed to Planet A with several gates, and all had a DHD, all were powered, etc?

To make it more interesting, all of these gates were taken from other worlds, and Planet A's orignal gate was removed long ago. Meaning, there is no Planet A default gate, and all of the other gates are default gates from other worlds...

 

[PTeppic]

Originally posted by System Lord Gypsy
I suppose if you had two gates, one with say, the original earth POO and one with the second it may be possible to dial from one gate to the other as the glyphs won't be exactly the same which is how the SGC managed to dial through the second gate and send a malp through to find where it was when it ws in use on the same planet as their gate {I believe the episode was touchstone}.

Sorry - they went off-world (to Madrona) to dial back to Earth. Can't remember how they forced it to go to the second gate though.

 

[PTeppic]

Originally posted by Tiberius
Question:
What would happen if you dialed to Planet A with several gates, and all had a DHD, all were powered, etc?

a) second and subsequent gates would only be added if the first was lost (canon)
b) there are no reasons why so many gates would be on a planet (conclusion) [but could make for a fun fan-fic]
c) priority goes to the gate with the DHD (canon)
d) no evidence so far to give a clear guide as to what would happen (conclusion)
e) supposition: three possible options - one of your gates would be chosen randomly, or in terms of proximity (to the source gate, or the absolute glyph address point in space); OR, somehow the wormhole will spread between all gates, duplicating the travellers (again, some fun possibilities for fan-fic); OR, the dialling gate will simply not engage the seventh chevron!

I reckon the third supposition is most likely - we already know that gates don't engage if the destination is otherwise unavailable. The protocol is otherwise fairly clear and predeterminate - if there was inadequate provision otherwise for multiple destinations, that gates would refuse to work.

 

[System Lord Gypsy]

LOL. Your right, they did. My mind isn't at it's best at that time in the morning. Although I am wondering if my theory about 2 gates with different POO glyphs on the same planet would work after all you are dialing a different address to get to the second gate but you are still dialing the same planet with the other glyphs. It begs the question, how many glyphs have to be different for a wormhole to connect and if only 1 then maybe it is possible on the same planet.

Gypsy