Did you like him??

[Indiana]

On a serious note!

Why are you bringing Dr. Jackson into the equation? S.G.-1 is a person short. Regardless of whether you regard the replacement as Dr. Jackson's replacement or not, that place has to be filled. S.G.C. *must* have a large number of high calibre, trustworthy, tried-and-tested Americans and other humans who are more than capable of filling that place and very keen to do so. It is screamingly obvious that one does not pass over all those people in favour of a lying, thieving turncoat - not if one wishes to retain any semblance of credibility anyway.

SG-1 was made up of a Colonel with good military techniques, a brainy female officer in the US Air force, an Archaeologist and an alien. An archaeologist and a super brain like carters has no place on the front line of earths first line of defense to quote the good General Bauer. Why did they risk those incredible brains going out into missions. And they risk Teal'c who is in a sense their inside knowledge to the Goa'uld. This is a totally unrealistic situation. Why did they get to stay together? Because it's aTV show. That's how it works. And the same goes with this New guy. It doesn't matter what he's done in the past, but what he does now.

 

[Hatshepsut]

I don't hate Judas, Anni and Dave.

I just find it totally illogical (Captain), that S.G.1 and General Hammond should pass over all the excellent humans they could have chosen in favour of an alien who has absolutely nothing to recommend him to them and whose actions so far have left a very great deal to be desired in someone under consideration for joining the flagship team. It's just not rational.

Anni, you have military experience. Wouldn't you prefer to work with someone who's been thoroughly vetted and is experienced in your team's way of doing things - someone you know you can rely on in a crisis - rather than an unpredictable loose cannon that doesn't know the ropes and needs training?

What I really resent is that T.P.T.B. have so little respect for their audience that they expect us to swallow their idea. Like I said, they'll be expecting us to believe next that water flows uphill.

Oh, and Anni, I loved the village idiot anaology - very apt!

Best wishes,
Hatshepsut :wave:
--

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Hatshepsut
I just find it totally illogical (Captain), that S.G.1 and General Hammond should pass over all the excellent humans they could have chosen in favour of an alien who has absolutely nothing to recommend him to them and whose actions so far have left a very great deal to be desired in someone under consideration for joining the flagship team. It's just not rational.

I agree with you completely, but that's not the first time they've done things that wouldn't really happen in real life. The reason why. . . Indiana just said it. . .

Originally posted by Indiana
Because it's a TV show. That's how it works.

Firstly, it ought to be more interesting to have Jonas on the team, or some other new, non-military person, than it would to have someone like Kawalsky, otherwise he should have been in SG-1 from the first episode, rather than Danny.

Whether he is interesting or not, I will wait and see.

Secondly, as I already said, the writer may come up with some stunningly, obvious, and clever reason why SG-1 really need Jonas on their team.

I don't know -- but familiarity with some new aliens, weapons systems, etc., etc.

Can't we just wait and see. If by episode 5 of season 6 you aren't eating your own words, then I will admit you were right, but sadly if that is so, I will be very disappointed.
:crying: :crying: :crying:

 

[Hatshepsut]

Dave wrote:

I agree with you completely, but that's not the first time they've done things that wouldn't really happen in real life. The reason why. . . Indiana just said it. . .

quote:

Originally posted by Indiana
Because it's a TV show. That's how it works.

Sorry, but that isn't a good enough reason - more of an excuse, in fact, for not taking proper care in what one presents to the public.

When one turns to science fiction, it's a given that one is prepared to suspend one's disbelief and to do so willingly - otherwise one doesn't go there; one sticks to the Discovery Channel <G>

It is therefore incumbent upon those who present science fiction programmes to show respect for their audience by not over-stretching that voluntary suspension of disbelief, hence my comparison with water flowing uphill...

Stargates, wormhole travel? Not a problem; cutting edge physics is bordering on fantasy anyway, so it's not too much of a stretch to accommodate that hypothesis. Various assorted aliens? Again, not a problem; there's no hard evidence to prove that they couldn't exist. Water flowing uphill? Definitely not; that's a flagrant breach of the known laws of physics. It's a step too far. So is Judas Quinn.

Here's a parallel:

Imagine you are watching the Peter Jackson film version of ‘The Lord of the Rings' - no spoilers here; the book was published in 1954!

The Fellowship is battling its way through orcs and goblins in Khazad-Dûm. They are really up against it when an emaciated geriatric in a loin cloth appears. Yes, it's Cohen the Barbarian who proceeds to polish off the Balrog without raising a sweat, while on the sidelines, Cut-Me-Own-Throat Dibbler attempts to sell all and sundry a sausage-inna-bun...

Would that be all right, just because it's a film, and that's how it works? The audience has already shown its willingness to suspend its disbelief in hobbits, elves, dwarves, magicians... Why not expect them accept a couple more humans to keep Aragorn and Boromir company? What does it matter that C.M.O.T. Dibbler and Cohen are from another world. No doubt Peter Jackson could come up with some stunningly obvious and clever reason why they should be there...

Firstly, it ought to be more interesting to have Jonas on the team,

Why? Because he's an unreliable loose cannon who is guaranteed to get S.G.1 into dark and dirty trouble every time they go off-world?

[/B]or some other new, non-military person, than it would to have someone like Kawalsky, otherwise he should have been in SG-1 from the first episode, rather than Danny.[/B]

Oh agreed. A fourth military person would be more of the same, but I'm afraid I can't suspend my disbelief to the extent of believing that in the whole of the wonderful U.S. of A. (and beyond that, the rest of the world) there isn't one single highly intelligent, klutzy academic with the right security clearance. It's more likely that I will win the lottery - and I don't buy a ticket <g>


I don't know -- but familiarity with some new aliens, weapons systems, etc., etc.

Upgraded Gatling gun, hande gonne, cross-bow, mangonel...?

Can't we just wait and see. If by episode 5 of season 6 you aren't eating your own words, then I will admit you were right, but sadly if that is so, I will be very disappointed.

Sadly, I fear that it will turn out to be the latter. :crying: Um, that's not wishing it to be so, by the way, just being realistic.

Best wishes,

Hatshepsut - contemplating writing a thesis on ‘Stargate S.G.1' - always up for a Challenge!
:wave:
–-

 

[padders]

Anni makes a very good point, we know almost nothing about this guy including how he is going to end up in the team.

And what he did on that planet can be taken so many ways. Sure he didn't jump in to the room when his colleagues were ill. He was frightented, very frightened. Daniel is perhaps now used to risking his life a bit more, being brave does take practice.

Sure he was a traitor when he brought the naquada to Earth but how bad being a traitor is depends on how it is you are a traitor against. Be a traitor to Hitler and you probably are doing a good thing. That is what the thought he was doing here. He also had no expectation of what was going to happen when he reached Earth, was leaving his home, family, friends everything behind all in the hope of getting Earth to try and prevent whatever might happen on his planet. I think he learnt to be brave pretty quickly.

And lastly he did not defend Daniel, because it would make no difference he even said that. The military guys are hardly likely to let a lone scientist say something they don't want said. This is one of the reasons he choose the only other option avaliable.

That is just one way of looking at his actions from a different standpoint. Sure this poor guy has a hard time ahead because people are going to continually compare him to Daniel. I hope that dosen't fase the writers, having a Daniel replacement would be incredibly annoying, he should be different and I sure hope he is going to be.

 

[Hatshepsut]

You make some fair points, Padders - and by association, Anni.

But, were you hoping no one would notice that you'd neatly side-stepped addressing that point which is germane to the debate, to wit the passing over of the brightest and best of planet Earth for someone whom

"we know almost nothing about"?


Even had he acted with courage, honour and intelligence - even had he refrained from using that incessant oleaginous smirk - during his début episode, it is still unthinkable to by-pass all those Tau'ri who have vastly superior claims to the vacant position in S.G.1.


Addressing the points you made:

Firstly, if I were going into dangerous situations on a regular basis, I would not like to have on my team someone whose first reaction is to become paralysed with fear. Such an one puts not only himself but the rest of my team in danger, and if being brave just takes practice, we might all be dead before he gets the hang of it...

Secondly, if Judas betrayed his people on the grounds they are as evil as Hitler was, do we really want to have any dealings with them, or to assist them with our less 'primitive' technology? Do we seriously want to take the risk that they'll be through the Stargate like ferrets down a rabbit hole, once these new 'allies' have established a presence here, taken over the control room and opened the iris...

Thirdly, the only sign of bravery that I saw Judas demonstate was in not running away when Jack shouted at him, although he looked as if he was in two minds about doing precisely that

Fourthly, thinking that no one will listen to you is no excuse for not telling the truth anyway. At least you've tried to set the record straight. Not to do so argues a lack of moral fibre, and a strong sense of self-preservation which is at odds with being a team player. At best, he's just a 'yes' man.

Fifthly, no one could replace Daniel :wink2:

Sixthly, there are plenty of "different" people right here on Earth. There's thee and me for a start and if you want the real thinking woman's archaeological crumpet, then look no further than Michael Wood :naughty:

Your serve. New balls please...

Best wishes,
Hatshepsut :wave:
--

 

[Jobeth]

I'm with Hatshepsut. There is nothing about Jonas to recommend him to the SGC. This has to be the strangest introduction to a new character that I've ever seen. We're expected to embrace as Daniel's replacement the man who essentially functioned as his executioner.

Why didn't they just write Jonas as a young Air Force officer, or scientist? Or have him heroically try to save Daniel, not run like a rabbit from danger? There are so many different, positive ways TPTB could have used to bring Jonas on board. Instead they deliberately create a cowardly, dishonest, untrustworthy character and expect us to love him.

 

[Mishkaz]

Originally posted by Jobeth
I'm with Hatshepsut. There is nothing about Jonas to recommend him to the SGC. This has to be the strangest introduction to a new character that I've ever seen. We're expected to embrace as Daniel's replacement the man who essentially functioned as his executioner.

Why didn't they just write Jonas as a young Air Force officer, or scientist? Or have him heroically try to save Daniel, not run like a rabbit from danger? There are so many different, positive ways TPTB could have used to bring Jonas on board. Instead they deliberately create a cowardly, dishonest, untrustworthy character and expect us to love him.

Refreshingly interesting ain't it? :evil:

 

[Anni]

:laugh2: :laugh: :laugh:

You wicked lady......

:evil: :evil:

 

[Mishkaz]

Moi?

 

[Anni]

Hee hee...... I laughed because it was exactly what I thought after Meridian had aired and everyone was going on about him!

:rolly2: :evil:

 

[Mishkaz]

Phew! Thanx Anni. I was beginning to feel like Billy-no-mates with my strange views!
I'm looking forward to the new series BECAUSE of the weird way in which they've introduced Jonas.
He's piqued my interest.
cheers
Mish

(I also wouldn't kick him outta bed, but that's not a very PC thing to say is it :evil: )

 

[Anni]

ROTFLMAO...... Billy-no-mates...... god, I haven't heard that expression for a few years!

Yes.... exactly. I watched the episode and thought, wow....this is a contentious character.... most people will hate him because of what he is and what he's done. It really piqued my interest too, I thought.....a sly, slightly dodgy geezer as a member of SG1? Nahhhhhhhhhhh! They wouldn't, would they? Squeaky clean SG1 infiltrated by some traitorous little guy from another planet?

What a plot twist.....

And you should be ashamed of yourself....you a married woman!

:rolly2:

Ah well..... I guess you can look at the menu, as long as you eat at home!

:evil: :evil: :evil:

 

[Jobeth]

Anni wrote:

Yes.... exactly. I watched the episode and thought, wow....this is a contentious character.... most people will hate him because of what he is and what he's done. It really piqued my interest too, I thought.....a sly, slightly dodgy geezer as a member of SG1? Nahhhhhhhhhhh! They wouldn't, would they? Squeaky clean SG1 infiltrated by some traitorous little guy from another planet?

Why would a "slightly dodgy geezer" be on the flagship team in the first place? Even though Daniel wasn't military he proved his courage on the Abydos mission when he took a staff blast for Jack. Teal'c proved himself when he rescued them on Chulak, while Carter was career military. Jonas on the other hand, has already proved himself to be weak, treacherous and cowardly.

I've only seen him in one episode, but that was enough for me. I really tried to give him a chance, but he started to lose me when Jack confronted him about the accident and he tried to shift the blame onto Daniel. The flashback scene where he runs like a rabbit, leaving Daniel to sacrifice himself for Jonas' people only cemented the bad impression.

Maybe TPTB have some innovative plot twist up their sleeves, but judging by their track record I doubt it. I think Jonas will just turn out to be yet another **** character from the folks who brought us Marty the Dweeb, Tok'ra Ho and Cadet Haley. Then they'll probably blame "Dannyfans" for Jonas' unpopularity, instead of accepting that it was their fault for creating such an unlikable character in the first place. As I said in an earlier post, they could have invented a much more sympathetic character, but chose not to.

After all, these are the same people who killed off good supporting characters such as Martouf, Aldwin, and the entire Tollan race.

 

[Mishkaz]

Originally posted by Jobeth
Tok'ra Ho .

:laugh: :laugh:

that's my fave so far hehehehehe

 

[Annette]

Originally posted by Mishkaz
Phew! Thanx Anni. I was beginning to feel like Billy-no-mates with my strange views!
I'm looking forward to the new series BECAUSE of the weird way in which they've introduced Jonas.
He's piqued my interest.
cheers
Mish

(I also wouldn't kick him outta bed, but that's not a very PC thing to say is it :evil: )

That is soooooooooo funny Mish. Burst out laughing when I read it. Especially about not kicking him out of bed. Hahahahaha!!!!!!!


annette

 

[Sphinx]

I'm a fence-sitter on this subject but I have noticed a few points which I have decided to pass comment on.

One of the trends throughout these posts is that Jonas has betrayed his people and so why should he be trusted into the team. It seems like people are forgetting how Teal’c entered the team. He was allied with the SGC’s main enemy – if anything it should surprise people how Teal’c got on the team. We’ve all seen how the Goa’uld work – they use all sorts of tricks including the pretense of friendship. My point – it is possible that over 1 episode Jonas gains the support of his team.

Another point I noted was that of Jonas having 60 years less experience in terms of technical advancement – whilst this may be true it doesn’t mean that his culture had not been exposed to technologies Earth has not seen. We often see examples of cultures using technology which is beyond their understanding but can adequately explain how it works. Do you all know how a car’s engine works – but you know what it does and how to use it. Cultures that have a closed vision of technological superiority will always pay the penalty – look at the Tollan and the Asgard. If it wasn’t for Sam’s “Basic†thinking the Asgard would be in similar situation with the Replicator threat.

I wonder how many online fans watched Meridan looking out for “the new guyâ€. Probably quite a few, it’s only natural. The problem is without realising people won’t give the guy a chance. Character analysis arguments never work with me for such a short period – how can you judge someone after seeing them for a total of 6 minutes ?

I don’t want to sound like I’m ignoring the opposing opinions out there, I respect everyone’s right to speak their mind but I feel this thread was started way to early to be fair to either side of the argument.

[ crash helmet attached ]

 

[Hatshepsut]

Four points come to mind:

1. Water does not flow uphill.

2. Even were Quinn the epitome of intrepidity, integrity and intellect, one does not pass over the brightest and best of one's own people who have a prior and superior claim to the vacant place, in favour of a total unknown. (As a terrestrial academic myself, I'd be flaming mutinous if I were passed over for such an one.)

3. Bringing an alien into the team has already been done...

4. Teal'c is persistently used as a comparison despite his case being far different:-

a) Teal'c saved the lives of S.G.1. (Quinn was only involved in the death of one)

b) Teal'c has far more years of experience in warfare than even Col. O'Neill.

c) Teal'c has intimate knowledge of one of the Tau'ri's greatest enemies, the Goa'uld.

Best wishes,
Hatshepsut :wave:
--

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Sphinx
Another point I noted was that of Jonas having 60 years less experience in terms of technical advancement – whilst this may be true it doesn’t mean that his culture had not been exposed to technologies Earth has not seen. We often see examples of cultures using technology which is beyond their understanding but can adequately explain how it works. Do you all know how a car’s engine works – but you know what it does and how to use it. Cultures that have a closed vision of technological superiority will always pay the penalty – look at the Tollan and the Asgard. If it wasn’t for Sam’s “Basic†thinking the Asgard would be in similar situation with the Replicator threat.

That was my point, though I failed to make it so eloquently. His planet already have that new power source, which SG-1 were falling over themselves to get hold of, we have no idea what else they may have that would make Jonas invaluable to them.

Originally posted by Sphinx

crash helmet attached

I'll need to borrow one of those too!

But I do actually agree with Hatshepsut's point about Jonas and Teal'c not being a fair comparison, and I think that I'm coming around more to the opinion that -- yes, they would use his help, but they would need a much longer period than a few episodes to fully trust him on a mission.

 

[pamie]

Originally posted by Sphinx

I don’t want to sound like I’m ignoring the opposing opinions out there, I respect everyone’s right to speak their mind but I feel this thread was started way to early to be fair to either side of the argument.

[ crash helmet attached ]

Yeah to be honest Im kinda sorry I started the thread now. I totally agree that I think its far too early to judge the character as we have not seen much of the guy or are not even sure how he becomes one of the team.
I started the thread as a bit of fun and its not really turned out that way...but some great points have been made on both sides and Im just waiting for season six to give a better view on it all...'till then I will be a fencesitter!