Pure Speculation RE; A Song of Ice and Fire.

[TK-421]

Illifer - hi there.

So that's where it came from. Now I remember. It's an interesting vision - Sansa crying herself to sleep at night and Arya watching silently and secretly (because of something Arya has done to Sansa or someone she cared about? Or is it just hinting at things that have already happened?)

No doubt it's referring to Sandor, Jaime, and Gregor, but I just don't see how it connects back to Sansa (as it's not a giant made of snow but a giant in a castle made of snow). I stand by my original assumption, and I'd say that the "darkness and thick black blood" part are definately hinting at what becomes of Gregor post-Oberyn. I mis-quoted earlier about him being described as a stone statue or giant, but Tyrion thinks that Gregor "looks as though he's been chiselled out of stone". I don't know if that equates with certainty to "in armour made of stone", but it seems plausible.

One thing I feel pretty sure about is that Sansa will not actually be slaying any giants (or Gregor) anytime soon.

This is the dream Bran has in AGOT when he is flying with the crow. I always took Sansa crying herself to sleep was because it was just when Lady was killed and Arya was silent because he did all her crying on the inside. This was Bran seeing things happening as they just happened.

 

[viZion]

This is the dream Bran has in AGOT when he is flying with the crow. I always took Sansa crying herself to sleep was because it was just when Lady was killed and Arya was silent because he did all her crying on the inside. This was Bran seeing things happening as they just happened.

I think this is correct, also. Sometimes there really aren't any hidden meanings or symbolism. It's like someone else on here said recently: Sometimes a tree is just a tree.

 

[The Imp]

I think this is correct, also. Sometimes there really aren't any hidden meanings or symbolism. It's like someone else on here said recently: Sometimes a tree is just a tree.

Freud said "somtimes a cigar is just a cigar", but IMO, whenever and author takes the time to toss in a dream or vision you have to take note.

 

[Ursa major]

Freud said "somtimes a cigar is just a cigar", but IMO, whenever and author takes the time to toss in a dream or vision you have to take note.

On the other hand, GRRM is a master of misdirection: sometimes when he "takes the time to toss in a dream", it may be to get you to look the other way while he develops the real story (i.e. the dream does have a real purpose, bit it may not be the purpose you imagine).

 

[No One]

This is the dream Bran has in AGOT when he is flying with the crow. I always took Sansa crying herself to sleep was because it was just when Lady was killed and Arya was silent because he did all her crying on the inside. This was Bran seeing things happening as they just happened.

Also agreed here, being as Bran was only just learning to "warg", his visions may have been focused more on the present rather than what's to come (although the Sansa/Arya parts easily apply to events in Kings Landing and maybe even beyond.)

And Ursa Major & Imp both make good points. Martin seems to know exactly how to walk a very fine line between predictable and blindingly sudden. What we expect is only ever one piece of the puzzle and rarely the deciding factor in how events play out.

 

[The Imp]

I think it's a given that in any dream, prophesy, vision, hallucination, etc. that GRRM gives us there might be some elements that will come to pass, some that won't and some that are intended to be red herrings.

Dany's vision in the House of the Undying, Jojen Reed's green dreams, Bran's 3 eye crow "visions", Maggy the Frog's predictions (to name just some) all had parts that we know now to be true, but also parts that may not 9while green dreams always come true they still must be interpreted properly)

The point I'm trying to make is, it's probably more likely that a dream etc. has elements of truth in it and must be taken seriously than to believe that it's something that can be entirely dismissed.

 

[Boaz]

Freud said "somtimes a cigar is just a cigar"

It definitely wasn't Clinton.

Martin seems to know exactly how to walk a very fine line between predictable and blindingly sudden. What we expect is only ever one piece of the puzzle and rarely the deciding factor in how events play out.

He really builds great suspense. If you've read Fevre Dream, you'll know Martin walks that fine line perfectly.

 

[whiskeyntattoos]

do you think the titan of braavos will come to life to defend Braavos like nam says?
also could varys have been the black cell head jailer that went missing at the same time he did, he was fat and did make his own schedule we already know varys dresses up and plays different roles, and if so what does that mean, he is working for high garden? he is trying lead them to high garden to throw them off his trail?

 

[The Imp]

It definitely wasn't Clinton. QUOTE]
Bill or Hillary?

 

[No One]

It definitely wasn't Clinton.

He really builds great suspense. If you've read Fevre Dream, you'll know Martin walks that fine line perfectly.

Is that one of his novellas? I've heard that there are two semi-prequal short novels to ASOIAF. Has anyone read these?

Either way I've been meaning to look into the backlogue of Martin's work. Cheers for reminding me.

 

[The Imp]

Is that one of his novellas? I've heard that there are two semi-prequal short novels to ASOIAF. Has anyone read these?

Either way I've been meaning to look into the backlogue of Martin's work. Cheers for reminding me.

I read The Hedge knight, which I liked. I wished it was longer, but it was a fine story. I'm trying to gegt a hold of the second in an audio version.

 

[Ursa major]

The point I'm trying to make is, it's probably more likely that a dream etc. has elements of truth in it and must be taken seriously than to believe that it's something that can be entirely dismissed.

I'd definitely agree with you there.

Bill or Hillary?

For that you'd need to check the moniker....

 

[All Men Must Die]

My speculation on ASOIAF is that "We" the fans might have to write the last 2 books of the series because GRRM is going to take to long to write the books. I'm glad the TV show is big right now on HBO. This IMO will make GRRM hurry up to write the books, if not the series will pass him up.

 

[Boaz]

I am not worried about the show catching up with GRRM. First, the writers, the actors, or the manicurists will go on strike to complain of inhumane working conditions. Second, HBO will realize that they're overtaking GRRM and so extend ASOS, AFFC, and ADWD each over multiple seasons. Third, HBO will decide that they now have better CGI and better writers so that they can start the series over... like Marvel with Spider Man... and the Hulk... and the Fantastic Four... and the Punisher. Fourth, HBO cancels the show when they realize that the sales for the first season on DVD/Blueray is obscene... so they don't have to spend millions per episode anymore... and they decide to make the first season of The Waste of T.... err, I mean The Wheel of Time and then cancel it, too.

 

[All Men Must Die]

One thing I'm wondering is in the last two books GRRM is thinking about writing to finish ASOIAF is how important the Iron Throne is going to be? Or better yet the saying they all use 'When you play the game of thrones you play to win'. I know everyone wants to be King/Queen but is that going to be more important than fighting the Others?

In ADwD Jon was about to take off in a mission to save all those thousands of Wildlings by Eastwatch before they had a chance to turn into the Others. Looks like they killed Jon ( I don't believe he is going to die, but still this is GRRM we are talking about ).

Is it going to be a three way story. One the battle of the North that turns to the battle against the Others. Two the battle of fighting for the Iron Throne. Three the battle of the dragons and Danny story.

I mean people in the south and across the narrow seas seem to not care about what happens in the north. How Stannis defended the realm by smashing the massive Wildling attack against the wall. Or talk about the Others.

 

[Tywin]

AMMD,

It is the "Song of Ice and Fire", and I truly believe those are the two stories being told. I think probably the most likely theory for what this represents is the story of Dany & the Targaryens (Fire) linking up with the story of Jon and the Starks (Ice) in order to defeat the others in the end. There are variations on this of course because Jon all by himself might be the song of Ice and Fire, but I think these are the two primary stories.

 

[All Men Must Die]

That's true about ASOIAF but it look like the series is also shaping into a religious war besides the two main stories being told. The new Gods, the Old Gods, R'hllor, Drown God and FM God.

Cersei allowing the Septans to have their own warriors and army be the looks of it. Just to settle a part of the crown's debt. By no means are they going to allow a new king or queen come in and tell them they can't have their warriors any more. This well cause a holy war against the crown. Looks like the new gods have their army.

R'hllor red priests believe they have the only true god or good god. They don't seem to have an army but they are sneaky. They get with an important person and convert them over to R'hllor. This person then converts all his people to R'hllor. Example Stannis. This how R'hllor gets there army. Plus they burn the old gods and new gods. This will cause a holy war.

The old gods are the north gods. People in the north believe in the old gods or the first gods. Also the Wildlings have only the old gods. The north allows the new gods up north but most people worship the old gods up north. If their gods are threaten it look like they will defend them. Even when Mel tried to convert all the Wildlings to R'hllor, they drew all those faces on the trees.

The ironman have their drown god but look like they don't try to convert others to their god. Not sure if they will start a holy war for their god.

The FM say all the gods are the same god. FM don't push their god on people but they are assassins. They are the wild card here. FM could be hired to start a holy war.

And I going to stop here before a write a book about this topic. To me it looks like the wars will not end even if the white walkers are defeated and Danny or Jon sit on the iron throne.

 

[Boaz]

I am not worried about the show catching up with GRRM. First, the writers, the actors, or the manicurists will go on strike to complain of inhumane working conditions. Second, HBO will realize that they're overtaking GRRM and so extend ASOS, AFFC, and ADWD each over multiple seasons. Third, HBO will decide that they now have better CGI and better writers so that they can start the series over... like Marvel with Spider Man... and the Hulk... and the Fantastic Four... and the Punisher. Fourth, HBO cancels the show when they realize that the sales for the first season on DVD/Blueray is obscene... so they don't have to spend millions per episode anymore... and they decide to make the first season of The Waste of T.... err, I mean The Wheel of Time and then cancel it, too.

I should've been worried.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

I should've been worried.

Yes, you should have. In your defence, everyone was about the same up until few months ago. xD