Further inquiry regarding female taste in sci-fi & fantasy

[Daisy-Boo]

In my opinion, if it has a cover depicting a thin young woman, high heels, shopping bags and/or cocktail glasses then you can safely assume its chick-lit.

Also, I realised that the root of my intense dislike of terms like chick-lit, chick-flicks, etc. is that it's a means of excluding women from the mainstream. I think it says: literature and films are mainly for and by men but here you go...here's something you ladies can enjoy too. See? it's about shopping and fashion and relationships and all that other stuff ladies are obsessed with.

Frankly I find it all very insulting. I read books that I enjoy, no matter who writes them or who the readership is intended to be. I watch films I enjoy, no matter what the genre. I don't like being told there is a genre of book or film I'm supposed to like simply because I have lady parts. I suspect that most women feel as I do so I think it's high time the publishing and film industries removed their collective heads from their collective...behinds, and simply concentrated on producing good books and films. Full stop.

 

[RcGrant]

Chick-lit? Yuck! No thanks. Same for the ye-olde-typical romance novels. Don't like historical fiction either. Also never liked the Dan Brown thing, and all the off-shots.

I read a lot of fantasy, but it tends to be young adult fantasy because that's the genre I am writing in. Young adult fiction in general, actually. I've found some incredibly exciting books have been coming out.

I read a lot of non-fiction: psychology, philosophy, and true crime. I like mythology and folklore. Fairytales.

I like the classics: two of my favourite books ever are "Lolita" and "Great Expectations". I like Shakespeare too.

Hm. Manga? lol

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I don't like being told there is a genre of book or film I'm supposed to like simply because I have lady parts. I suspect that most women feel as I do

The popularity of chick-lit, and more to the point, the sales figures (which is where the publishing industry focuses its attention) would say otherwise.

As for romance novels ... SF/Paranormal Romance is very, very popular right now. I don't know if it's bringing more female readers to the broader SFF genre, or crowding other SFF off the shelves, or simply creating a niche market that fills space that would otherwise go to more traditional romance novels. A publisher or the manager of a large chain bookstore would be able to answer that.

So I think there is a difference right now between SFF readers who happen to be women (of which there have always been more than the outside world acknowledges), and women who read SFF that is written specifically with female readers in mind.

 

[Daisy-Boo]

Teresa, I agree that "chick-lit" books sell but that doesn't negate my original point: that the books are aimed solely at women, on the assumption that we're all interested in the same themes of men, relationships, shopping, dieting and all the other cliches of the genre. I hate having it assumed that I must like something or want something simply because I'm a woman.

Also, there is the assumption that only women read these books. How can we be sure that women are the only ones who read chick-lit? They probably make up the majority who buy the books but who knows who reads those same books afterwards?

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

on the assumption that we're all interested in the same themes

But they aren't making that assumption. They are making the assumption (which turns out to be quite correct) that enough women are interested in those themes for such books to sell very well, and keep their publishing houses in business.

but who knows who reads those same books afterwards?

I don't believe that publishers care very much who reads the books afterward. They don't make money from the person who borrows the book from a friend, or who buys the book at a second-hand book shop. The most that can be hoped is that they will help publicize the book via word of mouth, but since they take longer to get the book it may be too late to do much good. It's the people who actually buy the books new that really matter, because these are the readers who pay the publishers to keep publishing more of the same, and who help provide (free) the vital early publicity.

 

[Daisy-Boo]

You make very good, logical points. Damn you! *shakes fist*


You're right in your assessment of the publishers' point of view. They publish what sells, regardless of who actually reads the product. It's all about the numbers.

Yet, I still abhor the entire "chick-whatsit" marketing angle. Anecdotal experience doesn't replace hard stats but the advertising for chick-lit books and films has soured me on the genre forever. Also, when discussing books with other people (IRL, not on the Chrons) I've all too often come up against that assumption that I obviously read chick-lit because hey, I'm a woman. I think those assumptions are formed in part by the marketing campaigns we are bombarded with.

I'm probably personalising the issue too much. In my defence, all I can say is that sometimes I just get fed-up with the assumptions of my likes and dislikes that are based purely on the fact that I happened to be born female.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

But think how nice it is to be able to rise above their assumptions.

 

[Daisy-Boo]

But think how nice it is to be able to rise above their assumptions.

It is nice but it's also isolating. I rarely encounter people IRL who don't at some point expect me to explain (or even defend) my interests, opinions and tastes because (in their words), "women don't usually think like that / like those things".

I'm an introvert by nature so I'm happy being on my own but in recent years I've basically given up on making new friends, dating or maintaining a social life. At some point it all became too much hassle.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Do not explain or defend; you don't owe that to anybody.

And go where you can find like-minded people. There are places.

 

[Daisy-Boo]

Do not explain or defend; you don't owe that to anybody.

And go where you can find like-minded people. There are places.

Maybe I'll do that in a few years time. For the foreseeable future I'm content being on my own.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

Dear gods, Daisy, you're the female version of me.


Maybe not. Believe me, DB, I know what true, total isolation can do to a person. I was living alone out in the woods, without any computer access at all much less internet access, and with nobody around I felt really comfortable with, I began to go stir-crazy. Cabin fever.


I wound up talking like a cat. Not just TO the cat, but LIKE him. *sigh* Gods rest his soul, that poor, sweet cat.....

 

[Daisy-Boo]

Manarion, I don't want to thread-jack so I'll PM you later if that's ok with you.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

Hehe. It's all good, DB.


But as TE said, you should never explain or defend your actions or preferences. And, even though I am not a woman, I can understand how you feel when you do feel that way, stereotyping is such an ugly trait, one I stay away from as much as possible.


And that swings both ways. There's been a couple romance novels that I was really able to get into myself, even though they do usually tend to be geared towards the opposite gender.

 

[bobbo19]

seems to me that the majority of chicks on this forum prefer horror. did not expect to see that!

 

[Daisy-Boo]

seems to me that the majority of chicks on this forum prefer horror. did not expect to see that!

Chicks are baby birds. Women and girls, on the other hand, are human beings. Now that you know the difference, I'm sure you won't make the same mistake again of referring to the female members of this forum as chicks.

 

[j d worthington]

Chicks are baby birds. Women and girls, on the other hand, are human beings. Now that you know the difference, I'm sure you won't make the same mistake again of referring to the female members of this forum as chicks.

Sooooooo glad to see someone say that. I can't tell you how much it irks me to hear "chick" coming back into such prevalence these days. Gak....

As for the point about women liking horror... both when I worked in a bookstore and at a video store, a large percentage of those who rented or bought horror were women... a larger percentage, in fact, than men. When I was married, my wife had a rather strong taste for that field, too (often quite graphic stuff, not generally my cup of tea). And I've had quite a few female friends who were heavily into horror as well... not a few of whom were quite fond of the works of H. P. Lovecraft, supposedly a writer who appeals "only" to men -- an odd assumption, considering the number of women who were fans/friends during his lifetime....

For anyone harboring such ideas about women and literature, I strongly recommend reading Joanna Russ's How to Suppress Women's Writing... not to mention her wonderful (and scathing) novel, The Female Man....

 

[Daisy-Boo]

Thanks JD.

 

[j d worthington]

Thanks JD.

De nada. (Hey, if even Harlan Ellison began to realize how sexist use of the term was almost 40 years ago.....)

 

[Lioness]

I like horror more than my boyfriend. I love psychological thrillers, and he doesn't like them, mostly because they're just a bit scary.

 

[Daisy-Boo]

I really enjoy John Connolly's books, for their mix of horror, suspense, detective/murder mystery and the supernatural. Which reminds me, I need to check when his next Charlie Parker book is due.