The Golden Compass Controversy

[mosaix]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

.... both Germany and Britain are (and were at the time) secular protestant states...

Can't agree Ian.

British schools were and still are, required to carry out 'a daily act of worship'.

In addition 26 Bishops sit, by right, in the House of Lords shaping the laws by which I have to live my life.

So that's education and government that religion is involved in, by law.

BTW what is a secular protestant?

 

[Wiglaf]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

You have to realize, these people feel that declared atheists have been repeatedly attacking them and their beliefs. Perhaps not too inaccurate a perception. Islam, Budhism, Hinduism, etc. are not usually the focus of atheists. Furthermore, those declaring themselves atheists often seem not to be atheists at all; they appear to actually believe in God but are mad as hell at Him. While those that do not believe might think religiousness silly, they feel no need to attack it. Besides, Pullman first got their attention with his attacks on the morality and ethics of Lewis when "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" came out. If he said no one should want to see or produce that movie, why can't they say the same about the movie based on his book? As for seeing it before condemning it, then they would be making him money, which is not their goal.

 

[iansales]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Can't agree Ian.

British schools were and still are, required to carry out 'a daily act of worship'.

In addition 26 Bishops sit, by right, in the House of Lords shaping the laws by which I have to live my life.

So that's education and government that religion is involved in, by law.

BTW what is a secular protestant?

We're still a secular state. We're not run by the Church. The Church does not dictate laws. Oh, and the protestant bit was because we were discussing the papacy

 

[iansales]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

What these Christians are advocating is censoring something because it does not fit in with their belief system. And that is wrong. The original article writer "advises" people not to see the film - although she starts by ranting about an "Atheist Conspiracy" (just to get her readers frothing at the mouth). The commenters do not say they are grateful for her advice, or that they will make the decision themselves... No, they attack Pullman, the makers of the film, and anyone who isn't a Christian. Again, that is wrong. You can bend over backwards all you like, but I condemn their behaviour.

 

[Majimaune]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

This thread seems to have turned into a religion thread instead of what it started out as.

 

[iansales]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Well, the subject was religion... inasmuch as it was about religious censorship of The Golden Compass...

 

[Majimaune]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Yes but only religion and not connected with Northern Lights at all.

 

[iansales]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

I think topic slippage is a law of nature. Or maybe it's a commandment.

 

[Dave]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

This thread seems to have turned into a religion thread instead of what it started out as.

I thought we were discussing why some people have decided not to go to see the film without knowing anything about it. NB. That is not the same thing as censoring the film, which I would be completely against.

The original article writer "advises" people not to see the film - although she starts by ranting about an "Atheist Conspiracy".

I take your point; her first paragraph is about some "Out Campaign" that has absolutely no relevance at all to the film. There are no ulterior motives for the release of the film, but if people wish to avoid it then that is their loss.

 

[iansales]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

I thought we were discussing why some people have decided not to go to see the film without knowing anything about it. NB. That is not the same thing as censoring the film, which I would be completely against.

Telling people not to see the film is a form of censorship, surely?

 

[Majimaune]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Yeah it is. Or it seems like that to me.

 

[mosaix]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

We're still a secular state. We're not run by the Church. The Church does not dictate laws. Oh, and the protestant bit was because we were discussing the papacy

Ian, Bishops by right have a hand in the law making and what's worse cannot be removed - even by the democratic process.

By comparison, what would you call a state in which the Bishops weren't involved in law making?

According to the Secular Society the most secular state in Europe - wait for it - is Italy. The Church plays no part in Government or Education. The reason is the strong part played by Communists in Government.

 

[Cayal]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Going off topic for a bit - I have always wondered why the Roman, Greek, Norse Gods are no longer considered Gods. That they do not exist. That the religion of it is no more (or if it is around it is not strong).

Why are those Gods non existent, fake, not real etc, but God, Allah is?

On topic - I am halfway through this book, I am starting to enjoy it. But when does the anti-religion come into it?

 

[Ursa major]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Originally Posted by Majimaune
This thread seems to have turned into a religion thread instead of what it started out as.

I think it was inevitable, Geoff. People aren't used to children's books that have the attitude to religion and God that Pullman's series seems to.

(I've sometimes thought that some of the critical accaim and enthusiasm that these books received from certain quarters was down to the books' stance on religion**. I don't want to say more, though, because I've not read the books, but only heard critics burbling on at length about them on the radio.)

** But then, I'm a bit of a cynic.

 

[iansales]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

This is what I meant by a secular state: "A secular state also treats all its citizens equally regardless of religion, and does not give preferential treatment for a citizen from a particular religion over other religions. Most often it has no state religion or equivalent. If there is a state religion, this should have only a symbolic meaning, not affecting the ordinary life of its citizens, and especially not making any distinction based on someone's religion." (taken from Wikipedia)

And yet the article containing the above quote doesn't list the UK as an officially secular state. Perhaps because our head of state is also the head of our church?

Jaire - the Big Three monotheistic religions considered all deities but their own to be fake - Norse, Greek, Vedic, whatever.

Ursa major - I enjoyed the books, although I thought the first was the best of the three. I'll have to reread them one day.

 

[Cayal]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Yes, but why do Romans themselves, whose ancestors worshiped the Ancient Gods, no longer worship them? How did those religions die out?

 

[iansales]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Christianity was just a bit too effective. Christian missionaries were pretty canny when it came to "persuading" kings and chieftains to convert. As in, "Both of your neighbouring kings have converted, so if you don't, we'll just get them to invade you because you're not Christian."

 

[Dave]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Telling people not to see the film is a form of censorship, surely?

Is the Church actually telling Christians to shun this film?

If so, then yes that is also a form of censorship, because it removes their free will to decide for themselves. That doesn't appear to be the case here, though it has been in the past with Mel Gibson's 'The Passion of the Christ'. There is no burning of books as was the case with Harry Potter, and the writer, who does not appear to be clergy, stated that she was going to review the film herself at some point. But now we are arguing semantics so I'm going to bail out of this discussion.

 

[Briareus Delta]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

You have to realize, these people feel that declared atheists have been repeatedly attacking them and their beliefs. Perhaps not too inaccurate a perception. Islam, Budhism, Hinduism, etc. are not usually the focus of atheists.

As an atheist, and speaking for my people(!), I don't think there is a focus. Atheism is not about attacking other peoples beliefs. It's simply a belief system, every bit as much as Christianity or Islam. Believe what you want. Worship fairies if that's your thing. I choose not to believe in an afterlife - I don't expect to be attacked/criticised for it, just as I wouldn't attack anothers beliefs. I do have issues with certain aspects of organised religion, such as the indoctrination of children, and I reserve the right to continue to raise those issues - that is not the same thing as attacking someones beliefs or being intolerant of them.

But Pullman has said that he is glad to be considered the enemy of organized religion.

Which is not, of itself, anti-Christian.

 

[Marky Lazer]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

What these Christians are advocating is censoring something because it does not fit in with their belief system. And that is wrong.

This is interesting. Let me skate on thin ice here. How about Hitler's Mein Kampf? I'm not in favor of censoring, but I read parts of this horrible book and think it's for the good that it isn't just censored but even outlawed in many countries. What you're saying, though I admit a bit twisted, because we sensible people don't agree with Hitler's believes and think it's good it's outlawed, we're wrong?