The Golden Compass Controversy
- Thread starter iansales
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Re: Golden Compass Backlash...
Good threads tend to do that!
I still think your attributing more power to the House of Lords than it has.
And this thread seems to have covered almost everything now - we've done religion, and now politics... what's left? quantum mechanics?
Good threads tend to do that!
Junomidge
Canadian Girl
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Re: Golden Compass Backlash...
It is interesting how wide-spread this controversy is. I first began investigating the books after seeing a film poster with a girl and an armoured polar bear. It looked just so amazing that I looked it up and found the books. They had been around for a very long time, but I have never come across them. I read them all, rabidly, and have been planning to see the movie for months. This exact discussion has come up on every message board I frequent now. That includes GSD dogs, cats, horses, quadding and local news message boards. I was in the bank today and the tellers and I were talking about it. What great advertising for the series and movie.
I have more reason than some to despise religion, having a mother who was yanked from her home to be placed in a catholic boarding school. What happened there is still being investigated. Following first contact with the european colonists to our coast, my people were decimated and then assimilated in the name of religion.
I didn't read a whole lot in the books to suggest the author's desire to kill god. It brings to mind RA MacAvoy's Damiano's series, where god and lucifer are used as simply as characters. People just attach too much importance to things, and it gets out of hand. I have read multiple articles and interviews with Pullman. Yes, he is a self-declared atheist, so what? If a christian's faith is so shaky that a book is going to drag him/her down, then maybe it wasn't real in the first place.
It is interesting how wide-spread this controversy is. I first began investigating the books after seeing a film poster with a girl and an armoured polar bear. It looked just so amazing that I looked it up and found the books. They had been around for a very long time, but I have never come across them. I read them all, rabidly, and have been planning to see the movie for months. This exact discussion has come up on every message board I frequent now. That includes GSD dogs, cats, horses, quadding and local news message boards. I was in the bank today and the tellers and I were talking about it. What great advertising for the series and movie.
I have more reason than some to despise religion, having a mother who was yanked from her home to be placed in a catholic boarding school. What happened there is still being investigated. Following first contact with the european colonists to our coast, my people were decimated and then assimilated in the name of religion.
I didn't read a whole lot in the books to suggest the author's desire to kill god. It brings to mind RA MacAvoy's Damiano's series, where god and lucifer are used as simply as characters. People just attach too much importance to things, and it gets out of hand. I have read multiple articles and interviews with Pullman. Yes, he is a self-declared atheist, so what? If a christian's faith is so shaky that a book is going to drag him/her down, then maybe it wasn't real in the first place.
purple_kathryn
Uberly purple
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Re: Golden Compass Backlash...
That was my thought as well.
Also it goes to show exactly what some believers think of atheists (ie if you're an atheist you are so completely morally corrupt that any movie that would seem to be pro atheist should be banned for the children!). Ironically while still pretending to be the persecuted one (oh the film is anti my religion)
That was my thought as well.
Also it goes to show exactly what some believers think of atheists (ie if you're an atheist you are so completely morally corrupt that any movie that would seem to be pro atheist should be banned for the children!). Ironically while still pretending to be the persecuted one (oh the film is anti my religion)
steve12553
The Enigma of Steel
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...
I have seen the ads and today I read a small article about some of the author's controversial statements. Six long pages of discussion later, I have my answers (and then some). I suspected from the ads that it was based on a childrens book. I went to one of the Harry Potter movies (midnight show) with my daughter because the person who had promised to go with her got sick. I slept in the theater chair for 75% of the movie and had no idea what happened. I saw the Narnia film with two young relatives and found it quite simplistic. I probably won't spend the time to see the movie. As far as the religion, I was once (or maybe twice) a serious Christian. I was never deeply into the politics of the church but I firmly believed. I still believe in many of the so called moral principles. (I haven't killed anybody this week or last). I still enjoy the music presented at Christmas (the old stuff) and I find the poetry of the Christmas story to be magic, but I do see the politics of nearly every church breaking its own rules. The science that we understand today contradicts the Bible and all of the old religious texts but I'm sure that a thousand years from now our decendants will look upon us as crude and ignorant. I am no longer a Christian but neither am I an Atheist or an Agnostic. I am waiting for answers. Standing in an open field on a warm day listening to nature functioning without the help of humanity tells me there is a God. Watching the interaction of Science and Religion tells me He's not the god of any religion yet defined. And with this I've probably only missed thirty-five interesting points brought up in this thread.
I have seen the ads and today I read a small article about some of the author's controversial statements. Six long pages of discussion later, I have my answers (and then some). I suspected from the ads that it was based on a childrens book. I went to one of the Harry Potter movies (midnight show) with my daughter because the person who had promised to go with her got sick. I slept in the theater chair for 75% of the movie and had no idea what happened. I saw the Narnia film with two young relatives and found it quite simplistic. I probably won't spend the time to see the movie. As far as the religion, I was once (or maybe twice) a serious Christian. I was never deeply into the politics of the church but I firmly believed. I still believe in many of the so called moral principles. (I haven't killed anybody this week or last). I still enjoy the music presented at Christmas (the old stuff) and I find the poetry of the Christmas story to be magic, but I do see the politics of nearly every church breaking its own rules. The science that we understand today contradicts the Bible and all of the old religious texts but I'm sure that a thousand years from now our decendants will look upon us as crude and ignorant. I am no longer a Christian but neither am I an Atheist or an Agnostic. I am waiting for answers. Standing in an open field on a warm day listening to nature functioning without the help of humanity tells me there is a God. Watching the interaction of Science and Religion tells me He's not the god of any religion yet defined. And with this I've probably only missed thirty-five interesting points brought up in this thread.
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...
Sheesh!
Exactly, Junomidge - And it's fiction! You know, that stuff that's made up! Not real! Imaginary!
Sheesh!
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...
Exactly. I'd figure they'd be focusing on books such as these:
(I must read this one)
Exactly. I'd figure they'd be focusing on books such as these:
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...
I guess, Jaire, that they're thinking the Golden Compass will have a much bigger audience (one that, ironically, their publicity could increase).
Oh, and it's aimed at children, unlike the titles you've posted.
I guess, Jaire, that they're thinking the Golden Compass will have a much bigger audience (one that, ironically, their publicity could increase).
Oh, and it's aimed at children, unlike the titles you've posted.
Strife
Riding Fenrir
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Re: Golden Compass Backlash...
i'm popping into the debate a little late, but why are a few people here saying that the author of His Dark Materials is antireligious? someone who spends three books talking about the rebellion against an organised church and a little god who has usurped the kingdom of heaven is not antireligious. On the contrary, the guy is very religious, but in a different way (well, this was in the essay i wrote on P. Pullman last week, sorry).
i'm popping into the debate a little late, but why are a few people here saying that the author of His Dark Materials is antireligious? someone who spends three books talking about the rebellion against an organised church and a little god who has usurped the kingdom of heaven is not antireligious. On the contrary, the guy is very religious, but in a different way (well, this was in the essay i wrote on P. Pullman last week, sorry).
Mad Tam McC
Mutually Assured Destruct
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Re: Golden Compass Backlash...
I'm going to add my wee bit into the various things said in this debate.
1) My religious views - None, but if god/God exists then he/she or it is beyond our comprehension so there's no point even trying. I dislike organised religions.
2) The house of Lords. Most people would want an elected house of Lords except the government. The reason they don't is because an elected (by proportional representation?!?) House of Lords would begin to rival the House of Commons.
3) I want to see the film. If religious organisations are allowed to make films promoting religions (e.g. Mel Gibson's film - which I didn't see and have no desire to see because watching a film where someone is tortured to death is not something I want to see) then I don't see why you can't have anti-religious films. I also think that making a fuss over a film will just make more people see it (as what happened in the Father Ted episode).
4) As for the anti-religious bits in the first book (plot spolier coming up) the magesterium (i.e. the other universe's Catholic Church) is experimenting on children to try and remove original sin. Pretty powerful stuff.
5) I disagree with censorship but there are several books I have no desire to read. Two of which have been mentioned in previous posts. Absolute hate and the idea of inflicting pain for fun are things that I just cannot understand.
6) I think the religious organisations have too much unquestioned power. On the Cable TV we have a God TV channel. I want there to be an athiest one (for balance) that spends 24 hours a day telling people why religions are wrong. I believe religious people should be constantly questioned.
7) We still have faith schools in Scotland (and I think they are very devisive - not on purpose but because children don't mix with other religions) They are state run Catholic schools. I would like them to be scrapped. The sad thing is other religions want there to be state sposored ones of theirs. But if we are going to have state religious schools, I want there to be state sposored Jedi ones (4th biggest religious grouping in Britain), where May the 4th (be with you) is a holy day. If I ever become really rich I may just open one up.
Anyway that's enough of my rant. I hope I haven't upset anyone (because I don't mean to) or come over as Mr. Angry.
I'm going to add my wee bit into the various things said in this debate.
1) My religious views - None, but if god/God exists then he/she or it is beyond our comprehension so there's no point even trying. I dislike organised religions.
2) The house of Lords. Most people would want an elected house of Lords except the government. The reason they don't is because an elected (by proportional representation?!?) House of Lords would begin to rival the House of Commons.
3) I want to see the film. If religious organisations are allowed to make films promoting religions (e.g. Mel Gibson's film - which I didn't see and have no desire to see because watching a film where someone is tortured to death is not something I want to see) then I don't see why you can't have anti-religious films. I also think that making a fuss over a film will just make more people see it (as what happened in the Father Ted episode).
4) As for the anti-religious bits in the first book (plot spolier coming up) the magesterium (i.e. the other universe's Catholic Church) is experimenting on children to try and remove original sin. Pretty powerful stuff.
5) I disagree with censorship but there are several books I have no desire to read. Two of which have been mentioned in previous posts. Absolute hate and the idea of inflicting pain for fun are things that I just cannot understand.
6) I think the religious organisations have too much unquestioned power. On the Cable TV we have a God TV channel. I want there to be an athiest one (for balance) that spends 24 hours a day telling people why religions are wrong. I believe religious people should be constantly questioned.
7) We still have faith schools in Scotland (and I think they are very devisive - not on purpose but because children don't mix with other religions) They are state run Catholic schools. I would like them to be scrapped. The sad thing is other religions want there to be state sposored ones of theirs. But if we are going to have state religious schools, I want there to be state sposored Jedi ones (4th biggest religious grouping in Britain), where May the 4th (be with you) is a holy day. If I ever become really rich I may just open one up.
Anyway that's enough of my rant. I hope I haven't upset anyone (because I don't mean to) or come over as Mr. Angry.
Wiglaf
Well-Known Member
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...
In response to Jaire's last post, I think the idea is that you might not want to unwittingly take your young child to a movie that conflicts with your beliefs. I see no problem with that. If a movie has a thread about how Atheism sucks and preaches about the One True Religion, Atheists could tell other Atheists that the film was propeganda they would be better off avoiding. What is wrong with letting people be aware that the movie isn't overly kind to organized religion? It merely provides them with info to use in deciding if they want to view it. As for The Atheist Manifesto, I do not think there is any concern that anyone will pick it up without knowing that it is pro-Atheism. It would be like Atheists sending warnings to each other warning that the writings of St. Paul were pro-Christianity. In those cases a warning is unnecessary.
In response to Jaire's last post, I think the idea is that you might not want to unwittingly take your young child to a movie that conflicts with your beliefs. I see no problem with that. If a movie has a thread about how Atheism sucks and preaches about the One True Religion, Atheists could tell other Atheists that the film was propeganda they would be better off avoiding. What is wrong with letting people be aware that the movie isn't overly kind to organized religion? It merely provides them with info to use in deciding if they want to view it. As for The Atheist Manifesto, I do not think there is any concern that anyone will pick it up without knowing that it is pro-Atheism. It would be like Atheists sending warnings to each other warning that the writings of St. Paul were pro-Christianity. In those cases a warning is unnecessary.
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...
I am reading the book now, 2/3rds of the way through and I have yet to see any mention of God, or any religious values what so ever.
And it is a fictional book.
If their faith is as strong as they say it is, they shouldn't be persuaded by a piece of fantasy fiction that has (thus far) no mention of God or Christianity.
I am reading the book now, 2/3rds of the way through and I have yet to see any mention of God, or any religious values what so ever.
And it is a fictional book.
If their faith is as strong as they say it is, they shouldn't be persuaded by a piece of fantasy fiction that has (thus far) no mention of God or Christianity.
Overread
Searching for a flower
Re: Golden Compass Backlash...
Ok I am comming back with this - I said it somewhere else and runs of memory that is several years old but here are my thoughts (again)
I first read the book when I was young - like Lewis, it was an adventure tale which borrowed bits from religeon, though more blatently in Northern Lights. The other thing I noticed as I got older was the the tale is not against the idea of religion, but rather against those who are in control of the belief of religion. Remember that at the end of the 3rd book Lyra speaks to Pan of creating the republic of heavon and also the her partents went into the abyss fighting the darkness.dark angle, who took over the control from "god". I took this to mean he was the devil - thus could see nothing wrong for him falling forever. As for the death of god incident, one which is often picked upon for being a major reason of hate against the film, I just saw it as showing that god in this world was more like us, able to be flawed, controled and abused.
Ok I am comming back with this - I said it somewhere else and runs of memory that is several years old but here are my thoughts (again)
I first read the book when I was young - like Lewis, it was an adventure tale which borrowed bits from religeon, though more blatently in Northern Lights. The other thing I noticed as I got older was the the tale is not against the idea of religion, but rather against those who are in control of the belief of religion. Remember that at the end of the 3rd book Lyra speaks to Pan of creating the republic of heavon and also the her partents went into the abyss fighting the darkness.dark angle, who took over the control from "god". I took this to mean he was the devil - thus could see nothing wrong for him falling forever. As for the death of god incident, one which is often picked upon for being a major reason of hate against the film, I just saw it as showing that god in this world was more like us, able to be flawed, controled and abused.
Majimaune
Actum pro novus diem
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Re: Golden Compass Backlash...
I'm not sure if someone else said this but when Dante did the Divine Comody, he was ridiculed for just writing things of how he saw it. He was basically going with the Church but saying that you could get all the way through Hell and then get to Heaven, without dying. Then get back again.
I'm not sure if someone else said this but when Dante did the Divine Comody, he was ridiculed for just writing things of how he saw it. He was basically going with the Church but saying that you could get all the way through Hell and then get to Heaven, without dying. Then get back again.
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