Wrath of a Mad God- Spoilers May Be Included

I'm also no fan of Magnus', but there was one time when I felt he might just about sneak into my list of accepted characters. That time when Caleb was hurt in Kesh and Magnus decided to go pay a visit to Lims-Kragma. That bit was pretty good, and I was desperately hoping to at least get some characterisation, but he has just stayed shallow.

I do have a strong feeling this is indeed because of Feist's rushed writing lately. In the Riftwar, Serpentwar & also the Mistress of Empire books (which I didn't like but I seem to be seriously out of step with most people on that :) he always spent enough time to create at least a few new figures that you would feel for (the Serpentwar was really excellent for that).

But the Conclave and Darkwar sagas have just generally been to rushed to let any such characters develop. I was quite hopeful when starting Flight of the Nighthawks, but it never worked out did it. In that respect these books read as if they are drafts where a few characters were tried but never worked out and then a new set come in etc. It is quite disappointing and it really stands out when you re-read a lot of books in rapid succession.

To me this was really the biggest disappointment of the last two series - inconsistencies rankles but I'll ignore those, but lack of characters to get invested in is much worse...
 
At risk of repeating myself, the Serpentwar saga was, IMHO, REF's best. As you mentioned Alde the characterizationa nd feeling of attachement/hate towards characters was a great aspect to the book, alongside a strong plot, some surprises and....

Nakor. Ref's work also seems to have generally got shorter the rift and serpent war saa's seem to take up a fair chunk of shelf-space, whereas the conclave is insignificant.
 
Hello, all.

I finished Dark God a while ago, but just discovered these boards.
I started reading Feist over 20 years ago, and pretty much followed them all.

I've been a little disappointed by succeeding books. The Darkwar was engaging, but it's driving me crazy that he keeps changing the rules. It reminds me of the old Warner Brothers cartoons where the coyote unzips his skin pulls it of, becoming the sheep dog, then unzips that and becomes something else, then unzips that, and again....

The impression I get is that REF decides that the old explanations didn't make sense, or a new explanation is needed to sync with the new stories, or he just liked a newer idea. How many changing explanations have we had for the Chaos Wars? What about the Talnoy? How many times did what they were change? Nakor is influenced by an artifact to channel Wodar-Hospur. No wait, he's Kalkin. Ralan Bek has the Nameless in him. No, it's a Dasati god. (wait, didn't he give Tomas a workout *before* Nakor put that into him??)

Part of the problem is that the story was sometimes told from Nakor's perspective, apparently showing his thoughts, and those thoughts weren't consistent with later revelations.

Oh, well, I'll keep reading new books, but I hope REF finds explanations he likes and sticks with them.
 
Welcome Scott. I like to think we're a nice bunch and t'would be great to hear your veiws on some other topics around this board as well!! (no pressure)

Yeah, seems like most long-term REF fans feel he's loosing it. Which, is a shame considering, I thinks he's one of the greats. I thought up until this series, most of explanation for 'stuff', was pretty good - if vague, even having characters with differing theories and opinions.
 
Aldebaranian said:
I'm also no fan of Magnus', but there was one time when I felt he might just about sneak into my list of accepted characters. That time when Caleb was hurt in Kesh and Magnus decided to go pay a visit to Lims-Kragma. That bit was pretty good, and I was desperately hoping to at least get some characterisation, but he has just stayed shallow.

I do have a strong feeling this is indeed because of Feist's rushed writing lately. In the Riftwar, Serpentwar & also the Mistress of Empire books (which I didn't like but I seem to be seriously out of step with most people on that :) he always spent enough time to create at least a few new figures that you would feel for (the Serpentwar was really excellent for that).

But the Conclave and Darkwar sagas have just generally been to rushed to let any such characters develop. I was quite hopeful when starting Flight of the Nighthawks, but it never worked out did it. In that respect these books read as if they are drafts where a few characters were tried but never worked out and then a new set come in etc. It is quite disappointing and it really stands out when you re-read a lot of books in rapid succession.

To me this was really the biggest disappointment of the last two series - inconsistencies rankles but I'll ignore those, but lack of characters to get invested in is much worse...
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I'm sure Mr Feist wont worry too much if you don't by any more of his books. Anyone would think you'd been forced to read the last 2 series! That's 7 or 8 books and it didn't dawn on you to stop reading on say the 3rd or 4th? You even admitted to re-reading them. So they can't be that bad then can they.
The thing is I'd put money on you buying the next series and you'll probably crit that aswell.
 
Valko said:
I'm sure Mr Feist wont worry too much if you don't by any more of his books. Anyone would think you'd been forced to read the last 2 series! That's 7 or 8 books and it didn't dawn on you to stop reading on say the 3rd or 4th? You even admitted to re-reading them. So they can't be that bad then can they.
The thing is I'd put money on you buying the next series and you'll probably crit that aswell.
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:)

Fair enough Valko, you'll get por odds on me buying the next series - although I would not agree that it is a given that I will criticise it! I clearly prefer the "Darkwar" series to the "Conclave" so I hoping the next will make a step up - and sure I'll get the next series! That doesn't mean that you can't critise does it? :)

I certainly wasn't forced to read them and the story did certainly keep me going. But that doesn't mean that it was great - to some extent that is REF's problem. When you start out with excellent series and build such a brilliant world, the readers start to expect it to continue.

There are plenty of authors I'll read the books of and whose writing is worse in general and I'll still plod through to see the end (I make an exception for Kevin J. Anderson who I really can't deal with) - but I don't _expect_ them to do any better. What is frustrating with the last two series is that they are _close_ to being really good - but they fail to live up to what REF has produced in the past. That doesn't make them a pain to read, but it does irritate me :)
 
Of course you're allowed to critique a book/author but your posts come accross as though his last 2 series weren't worth the paper they were written on.
He's not aiming to win the noble prize for literature, just damn good yarns, which is exactly what they were.
Any inaccurracies ( and there were a couple ) were mostly down to his proof readers not doing their job properly, not the great man himself
 
I don't know, Valko. Surely the author takes responsibility for both the book at hand and the continuity of the world created when (s)he chooses to set the book at hand inside that world, no?

And no, Mr. Feist probably wouldn't care much if 1 or 2 readers didn't buy his latest stuff. It's a dangerous thing, though, to leave your long time fans feeling as though your writing's not living up to previous standards. Not that I'm a yardstick where such things are concerned, but I too had been reading Feist since Magician, and found the Conclave series so patchy that I (to-date) haven't purchased Exile's Return.

I did, however, like the first book in Legends, Honoured Enemy, and will likely pick up the other two at some point.
 
Most authors are guilty of it. Take Gemmel for instance, he admitted that he put a major battle in the middle of a raging river, in one of his Drenai novels. Fortunately, one of his proof readers picked the error up and he changed the location.
 
I'm glad I'm not the only person who found this book (and series overall) to be disappointing.

As I read the story, some things didn't seem right, like Erik having never married, or Kaspar's statement that he hadn't met Tomas. It had been so long since I read the previous books that I couldn't put my finger on why I thought it was wrong. Thanks for the clarification everyone!

After I finished this book I wondered if Feist was writing a satire about deus ex machina, because it seemed to abound. It was even literally represented in the Talnoy. I realize that it's perfectly ok in the genre to have dealings with the gods and even have divine intervention, but in the case of this book it just seemed like it was done lazily.
 
I still believe that all these mistakes are down to the simple fact that Feist doesn't reread any of his books after they have been published. Can't remember where I read it but I'm 100% confident of this. I believe he has a great bigger picture in his head, but sometimes forgets the little things such as Erik's marriage that spoil the whole Midkemian atmosphere for us all.
 
Fake Vencar said:
I will also send my warmest welcomes. Its been getting too quiet here of late, nice to see some new insights. As for Magnus, I don't despise him but I am also fed up with the 'going to be more powerful someday' phrase. He hasn't really shown any of his power yet at all
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i agree with that one
 
It may just be that I love getting surprised, or having things explained differently, but I loved Wrath of a Mad God.
Then again, alot of the books that some of you guys said were the best I found to be boring.
The whole Ban-ath story is shear brilliance. What other God has so much character to him than Ban-ath? So in that case I love him being the mastermind behind it all. And having such a shadowy God be the one to explain the whole story certainly leaves a lot of room for sequals. I mean, how much of what he said can be trusted?

True, I did notice alot of mistakes in the small things.. And it does annoy me also that Magnus seems to be completely character-less. In fact, I think he's just meant to be the one who can save them all, but then dies so Pug has to save the day at the end. Other such occasions are all the Jimmy the Hand-wannabe's (and I understand why, he was my favorite character also, but it's just too much of them), Thomas who hasn't seen any action since Sethanon, Macros' reincarnations, etc. But we've seen these things from Feist earlier, and I've come to accept them. They don't take anything away from how great the story itself is.

Something else I'd like some clarification on is.. Who actually IS the Mad God from the title in the book? Is it the Dreadlord, which we were all thinking at first but then turned out isn't even a God? Is it Ban-ath (Pug's inner dialogue when speaking to Ban-ath has him thinking Ban-ath is plain crazy)? Or is it the Midkemian God of Evil, who, in his wrath, sends Varen to dispose of the Dreadlord?

I'm mostly curious about how much Ban'ath manipulated. He makes it seem as if everything until Wrath of a Mad God was orchestrated by him, and that perhaps Midkemia was never really in danger until then. Then there's the Goddess of Death saying Macros interfered too much, which makes me think either Ban'ath had trouble controlling him or the other Gods aren't very aware of what Ban'ath has been doing. Then there's the question of how closely Ban'ath and the Nameless God have been working together, and if perhaps they are in the same league or maybe even a different aspect of the same God.

But the most interesting to me is the following, which I hope is a plot and not just a mistake by Feist: Ban'ath needs to be taken to the Dasati realm by a mortal in order to interfere there. It would be logical to assume the same is true about Kelewan; Ban'ath can't interfere there unless taken along for the ride by a mortal. If that's the case, then Ban'ath either lies or isn't speaking the complete truth when he says he's the one who's been sending Pug letters from the future. After all, if Ban'ath can only intervene in Midkemia or through a mortal, how could he possibly send the Kelewan emporer letters?

And of course there's also the Quor. I think it sucks that Feist spent so much time on that storyline, I mean he basically started their story in Into a Dark Realm with the whole education and army service for Caleb's kids. But anyway.. I think they're creatures from a realm above Midkemia, like the Dasati are creatures from a realm below Midkemia.
 
I agree with most of what you said Ivaron. And welcome to the Chrons :D

I believe the Mad God is the Dark God of the Dasati, which does turn out to be the amazingly powerful Dreadlord. Although, as Nalar instrumented this 'evil' side of the Dasati, it could also be him.
 
Fake Vencar said:
I agree with most of what you said Ivaron. And welcome to the Chrons :D

I believe the Mad God is the Dark God of the Dasati, which does turn out to be the amazingly powerful Dreadlord. Although, as Nalar instrumented this 'evil' side of the Dasati, it could also be him.
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Thanks you for the welcome :D

Maybe the title is meant to be vague, in that it could mean anything. I was just thinking some more on the Quor, and they could also be the direct opposite of the Dread-creatures.. Instead of sucking the life-force out of everything, they maintain the life of a planet..?
 
It was definitely disappointing to see Nakor depart. But then what else would we have him become? Surely not the perennial amusing sidekick with occassional pearl of wisdom.
I too was disappointed that the Choja chose to die with the planet rather than send at least one of their queens and attendants to safety

A question though..
If Macros can be re-incarnated in a lower level of existence, then perhaps one of the Quor might also be...
 
That sinks it for me. Nakar was the one characters who'd been living up to Feist's previous standards, in my opinion. If Ray's gone and gotten rid of him (didn't like seeing Macros reincarnate), I'm certain to give up on Exiles, etc. Will stick with Legends, though.

*Turns away with a lump in the throat, sniffs:(:rolleyes:)*
 
All right Nix, I'll give Ray another chance, but let me ask you a question, if I may.

Having read the book, do you think it stands up as a story on its own merits? Referring to plot, of course; not expecting a fresh re-introduction to the characters!!!;).
 
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