SPOILERS: A New Theory on Jon

[Koopa]

it is very much like medieval europe and thus patriarchal, actually from the greeks (perhaps even farther back) to then end of the middle ages (and perhaps even a bit further) society has been patriarchal.

It is only recently that that has changed, and in certain countries (India , pakistan and so on -basically all islamic nations) this is still the case, look for the precidency in western countries, most of the time the president is male and the majority of his underlings are males also. Its ironic though that in prehistoric times women where more important, for they collected the majorit of the food, whilst the men only brought in a small amount with their hunting, yet because of the more homebound situation, in time woman became secandary citizens.

Also Baratheon is not a dead house, Stannis still lives and so does his little girl Shireen, admitted stannis will probably die and wether shireen dream will come true is still to be seen, still she is a baratheon and it is known that if she is the last surviving memeber of her family, her child can take up /carry her name and not his fathers and thus resume the baratheon line, its something like that in the vale also, robert is the last male alive, if he where to die his nephew will be heir and he will forego his current lastname and take up the arryns last name.

 

[Werthead]

Yep. Also note that Maege isn't the last Mormont. She still has daughters younger than Dacey back on Bear Island who didn't join in the rebellion.

House Baratheon is in a bad way. Stannis and Shireen are the only 'proper' Baratheons left, but also remember that, on paper, Tommen and Myrcella are also Baratheons. The logical choice for Lord/Lady of Storm's End would by Myrcella, although if she marries Prince Trystan I think the Storm Lords would object very strongly to being ruled over by someone married to the Martells.

And yeah, if Harry the Heir becomes Lord of the Vale, he would probably have to take the Arryn name. I'm guessing this may even be traditional when the main family line is extinguished (as I traditionally have doubted whether a family line and name can continue without interruption at all for 6,000 years in the case of the Arryns, and more than 8,000 years in the case of the Starks).

Interesting note on geneology. If Daeneys were to die, then Stannis actually becomes the rightful King to Westeros even from the Targaryen POV, as Stannis, Renly and Robert were the grandsons of Rhaelle Targaryen, daughter of King Aegon V and sister to King Jaehaerys II.

 

[Koopa]

baratheon still got a bunch of bastards up his sleeve as well, whereas targaryen will most likely die out if things remain as they are (Dany unable to have children -> at least if this is true and if Jon is a ******* he is a man on the nights watch)

 

[Werthead]

The Targaryen name will die out, but the line continues through Stannis and Shireen.

The Baratheon bastards have not been legitimised; Edric and Mya have been 'recognised' (acknowledged) but not made leigitmate members of the house. Thus the house dies if Stannis and Shireen perish altough it continues on paper through Myrcella and Tommen, who retain the name.

 

[Koopa]

what i mean is, the bastards can be legitimized by the king if need should arise, or so, whereas when dany dies there wont be any tarfaryen left, the baratheons are very far-fetched targaryens at the least and as said they are baratheons, not targaryens, although one could say that from the beginning of aegon's conquest house baratheon come forth from targaryens whom took up the houses name.

 

[Werthead]

Actually, 'Baratheon' is a Valyrian name and was the name of the Valyrian lord Aegon I's mother had a relationship with (presumably after the death of Aegon's father), thus her son Orrys was of House Baratheon. Whilst Orrys stole the Storm King Argilac's castle, motto, daughter and arms, the name Baratheon was his own from the start.

The only person who could legitmise Gendry, Edric or Mya would be Tommen. It's possible Tommen (or his Hand) might do this, especially if the political situation makes it advisable to have more Baratheon heirs very quickly.

Saying any more than that would constitute AFFC spoilers, so I'll refrain.

 

[Koopa]

omg so basically they are in need of more baratheons after cersei first tried to wipe them off the earth. I cant w8 for the paperback release of Affc in Belgium

 

[DeannaBelle]

Thinking about this a little bit myself, I'd have to ask the obvious question: why would Lyanna want Ned to keep the birth of Jon a secret from Robert, if Jon were Robert's son? The only naswer I can come up with is that Lyanna eventually ended up hating Robert, and did not want him to raise her son. So she made Ned promise to raise Jon as his own. This would explain Robert being in the dark about Jon. And Lyanna hating Robert is not very much of a stretch etither, considering what a womanizer he was - Robert was more into "warring and whorring," as he said in AGOT - very much NOT Lyanna's type.

That and Robert didn't treat his bastards too well. Although he may have treated Lyanna's kid well-enough, given his infatuation with the idea of her. Or he may have hated Jon the way Tywin hates Tyrion.

 

[DeannaBelle]

I too think that the Robert+Lyanna=Jon theory is probably incorrect. More than the proofs supplied here, it doesn't really seem to fit in with Martin's work. Of course that doesn't mean we can't talk about it!

Here's a crazy far-fetched theory. When Ned finds out about Cersei's incest with Jaime in AGOT, he doesn't really seem that disgusted. He's only concerned with Joffrey being illegitimate and therefore not an heir to the throne.

What if, and here's the big one, what if Jon is Ned and Lyanna's son? They seem to have had a strong relationship that went beyond mere brother and sister. It may fall apart if we think about timelines, as Ned's whereabouts were as well known as Robert's during the rebellion. It would certainly explain Lyanna wanting him to keep a secret.

Thoughts?

That's what I honestly thought in the first few chapters of AGOT, simply because it talked about how Jon looked like a pure Stark. But I just wasn't sure Ned was type of dude, and two cases of sibling incest in one series... far-fetched (in my world).

I firmly believed from the get-go that Jon was Lyanna's son, but I had to read it to make the connections about his father being Rhaegar.