Done to death... again.

How could Eddard fool Catelyn into thinking Arya is her child? We've seen how Catelyn reacted to Jon, who was not her child, so how would she have treated Arya if Arya was also a *******? We never get a hint of Catelyn treating Arya like she treats Jon. I know Catelyn was mentally unstable, like all of Hoster Tully's children, but to say she was brainwashed into believing the she gave birth to Arya, when she actually did not, is, well, Tully crazy.
 
Boaz said:
We see this in his concern for bastards. Most notably this is manifested in his treatment of Jon.
Click to expand...

Assuming Jon is, indeed, a ******* and not the legitimate child of a recently wedded Rhaegar and Lyanna. Blue roses do make a lovely bridal bouquet... :)

Whilst surfing Ned's stream of consciousness, does he ever explicitly state that Jon's a *******?
 
no JDP i dont believe he does. On top of that in the above quote he refers to him as Jon Snow not as simply Jon. There was something peculiar about the wording in reference to jon in neds chapters during my last reread but i forgot it. it may have been that...
 
So let's recap here. Who do we think are Jon's parents? And yes, that is parents, plural.

Ned + Wylla
Ned + Ashara Dayne
Ned + someone else?
Benjen + ???
Rhaegar + Lyanna

Did I miss anything?
 
I make no claim to the legitimacy nor ludicrousness of any of these concepts regarding Jon's conception... I'm just listing what I've read... or think I remember.

Eddard+Ashara=Jon... Eddard's marriage broke his and Ashara's hearts.
Eddard+Wylla=Jon... Eddard broke his marriage vow once... just the once.
Benjen+unknown=Jon... Ben was a wild youth.
Rhaegar+Lyanna=Jon... this is the most popular theory.
Robert+Lyanna=Jon... Ned's promise is to keep Jon from being like Robert... thus the naming after Arryn.
Eddard+Lyanna=Jon... sick.
Benjen+Lyanna=Jon... still sick.
Brandon+Lyanna=Jon... tries to explain why Brandon forsook his bride for Lyanna.
Rickard+Lyanna=Jon... completely sick.
Aerys+Lyanna=Jon... maybe Rhaegar was covering for his old man.
Howland+Lyanna=Jon... helps explain Jon's powers.
Brynden Tully+Lyanna=Jon... trying to explain Hoster's animosity towards Brynden.
Randyll Tarly+Lyanna=Jon... this would mean that Jon and Sam actually are brothers.

The following links may include some origins for Jon that I've neglected.

Spoilers: Theory on Jon

Pure Speculation RE: A Song of Ice and Fire

"promise me, Ned" and "the value of Howland Reed"

spoiler: knight of the laughing tree = Jon

Spoilers: A new theory on Jon

Jon Snow

About the only other thing that has not been mentioned is the possibility of an immaculate conception.

KESpires, you are an evil, evil man for dredging this back up... I love it.
 
I have nothing to add except to say that I'm so confident that R+L=J that I don't even consider it a mystery anymore. It's that completely obvious to me.

And if I'm wrong? Well, the internet's secondary function (primary: propagation of porn) is for people to anonymously post brazenly inaccurate opinions. Wheee.
 
Did you guys notice that we've made Lyanna out to be worse than Amarei Frey... aka Gatehouse Ami?
 
I'd be happy if the R+L=J turned out to be the case; that'd mean that GRRM is a devilishly crafty writer who is holding an insanely complex story all inside his head. I like the thought that he's that good.

But is he that good? He's the best fantasy writer living, that's for sure. But is he that good that he's been laying subtle hints along four massive novels?

Also, if it is true, how is it going to affect things going forward? Does he have Targ and Stark claim to the throne? Will he be King of the North and sit the iron throne at King's Landing?

Or will anyone believe him?

That, to me, is the most important part. He's got to get a credible person to sway the opinion, if it is true. Who would do that? Would he even want them to?
 
Howland Reed. This is why we haven't seen him yet. He's going to come out of the marshes and pronounce R+L=J like a prophet.
 
Oh, you're very right. I am sure that Howland is the key to everything. He knows things, so he hasn't been out of the marshes since the Tower of Joy.
 
Yeah, but if a little crannogman stumbles out of the marshes screaming about a ******* not being a ******* and the dragon prince mating with the wolf lady...

Yeah, he'll be taken seriously.
 
Maybe he took pictures? ... I know, incriminating videos on youtube!
Westerostube! :eek: Or Twestero...no, nevermind.
 
Syphon of Oor-Tael said:
Does anybody know why Benjen was on the Wall to begin with?
Click to expand...
As a young tagger, Benjen always dreamed of putting graffiti up for the Wildlings to see. You know, slogans like "Summer is coming" and "Coldhands was here".
 
The more you use spraycans, the colder they get. Hence coldhands! It's brilliant! Great job, Boaz. But if I see you post that on my thread, you're in for it. :p
 
KESpires (hope your feeling better), I think GRRM is devilishly clever. But he does say he's a "gardener, not an architect". My guess is that he has a garden plan of how he wants things to turn out, drops lot of hints along the way, and does some improvising. What do the experts on this site say?

Jon, well, if he is at the head of an army, flying a dragon, not too much factual proof will be needed, other than good propaganda. Also, GRRM is the puppetmaster, so the masses of Westeros will do as he wills. I think he is good enough to make it a good convincing and compelling narrative.

Realistically the historical Henry the VII th didn't have a great claim to the throne, but he was at the head of the victorious army and then married royal blood. One of his claims was some vague relation to King Arthur, and he even named his firstborn Arthur. (and many of the English heirs to this day have that name in their long list). Its very attractive mythology (er, bull) but it serves for propaganda purposes. Sometimes only truthiness is needed. Facts are helpful too!

Maybe we can have a poll on who thinks GRRM has got it all planned or he is improvising ingeniously and keeps his options open, or somewhere in between!
 
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