A Dance With Dragons: Speculation?

[Rfred]

Alright, a hypothetical theory...
The author is trying to subtly place as many of the named valarian steel swords in the north as possible.
1.The wall will fall. Someone will blow some horn and the magic holding back the others will fail.
The watch will fall back to winterfell(jon snow,longclaw) at a very innoportune time.
2. The knights of the vale(lyn corbray,lady forlorn) march on winterfell pursued by someone loyal to the lanisters(randyl tarly, heartseeker)
3. Breinne survives, somehow( oathkeeper) and hears of sansas homecoming to winterfell. Stoneheart cat and company move to winterfell.
4. That guy with red rain (drum?) Just happens to be vacationing in winterfell at the time.

Talk about a party. Even before the others or the dragons show up we've got another war.

Prediction... Either corbray or tarly get wacked in the ensuing violence and bran/hodor show up to become the warging knight weilding heartseeker or lady forlorn, or both?. Does the bran/hodor combo remind anyone else of masterblaster from beyond the thunderdome?

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

And BTW Mr. Martin has said the additional POV is not Sandor, and the Tyrell's won't be in ADWD, which means it has to be Melisandre

Sorry Justine, it's pretty much an open secret who the new PoV will be, and it's not the Lady in Red. Who like Howland Reed, Varys & Littlefinger knows too much to let us free rein inside their heads.

And Rfred; Bran, Hodor and the rest are now past the Wall and heading North so it's currently unlikely that they'll turn back unless forced to do so and if they do they'll probably not meet the Children of the Forest so I just can't see it, though anything is possible with GRRM. Perhaps Bran/Hodor wights will storm the Wall and Jon will have to kill his brother?

As for the others, a lot of those are quite a long way from the Wall (the North is huge you know!) so again, I think unless they currently fight for Stannis or Jon Snow there won't be much help coming. Especially not if the Lord of Dreadfort starts skinning alive those who try...

I also agree with Dolorous Nate (nice username btw) that there will probably be several main character deaths left in the series with Jon, Dany & Tyrion right in the mix. He's on record as saying the ending would be 'bittersweet' so all these people he puts in harms way...guess what, so will die.

 

[IlliferThePenniless]

W_S

I thought it was confirmed that Mel was one of the new POVs for ADwD... I think somebody around here (TK? Wert?) heard it was one chapter...

 

[viZion]

I thought it was Melisandre as well. If not her then who?

 

[TK-421]

Melissandre has been confirmed as having at least one POV chapter. GRRM has said so himself as recently as a month ago in Valleycon as well as giving some news on other POVs.

What WS is referring to is that, in the words of Yoda, "There is another...." GRRM has said that there will be a "surprise" new POV in ADWD of which he will not reveal or speculate on until the book is released.

To recap, the confirmed POV's in ADWD are as follows (spoilers follow of course):

Varamyr Sixskins
Tyrion
Dany
Jon
Bran
Davos
Asha
Arya
Sansa
Reek (Theon)
Melissandre
Quentyn
Cersei
SURPRISE POV

There continues to be speculation over whether the Sansa chapters have indeed moved to Winds of Winter or not.

 

[IlliferThePenniless]

And we don't know that the surprise PoV is a new one right? So it could be someone like Jaime or Brienne who's been around but we weren't expecting to see in this book...

Are there any savvy guesses as to who we'll be seeing? Our first Tyrell PoV mayhaps (I keep thinking that family's lack of a PoV representative bodes ill for them...)

 

[Ghost of Harrenhal]

And we don't know that the surprise PoV is a new one right? So it could be someone like Jaime or Brienne who's been around but we weren't expecting to see in this book...

Are there any savvy guesses as to who we'll be seeing? Our first Tyrell PoV mayhaps (I keep thinking that family's lack of a PoV representative bodes ill for them...)

Considering what has happened to Ned, Cat, Bran, Arya, Sansa, Brienne, Tyrion and Cersei to name a few, I think the Tyrells not having a POV bodes WELL for them!!

 

[TK-421]

I got the impression that this was a character that did not have a POV before. A brand new POV and the last one to be introduced to the series.

Some candidates that I would propose are:
Loras Tyrell
Jorah Mormont
Brynden Tully
Edmure Tully (unlikely)
Jeyne Westerling
Auranne Waters
Osha
Howland Reed (that would be the bomb but highly unlikely)
Garland Tyrell
Alleras/Sarella
Darkstar
Qaithe

 

[Kalhaven]

I got the impression that this was a character that did not have a POV before. A brand new POV and the last one to be introduced to the series.

Some candidates that I would propose are:
Loras Tyrell
Jorah Mormont
Brynden Tully
Edmure Tully (unlikely)
Jeyne Westerling
Auranne Waters
Osha
Howland Reed (that would be the bomb but highly unlikely)
Garland Tyrell
Alleras/Sarella
Darkstar
Qaithe

I would be pleased if it was Loras. Up to this point, I haven't found him to be that interesting of a character (reminds me too much of Jaime). But if he survives his near-fatal injuries, I think his character will have a lot of interesting thoughts to present.

Howland Reed would be interesting for obvious reasons. Maybe too interesting to keep up the element of suspense in the plot. I dont think the new POV will be Howland.

The Blackfish would be a fun POV to follow. I've always liked his attitude. Again, I don't think we will get to see things from his perspective.

 

[TK-421]

Welcome Kalhaven.

I think it comes down to two factors for GRRM:

1) What gap is there in telling the whole story? If the musings about Loras not really being injured and making his way to Dany are true, then I can see the value in that surprise POV. The Blackfish is another one that disappeared and while most think he will reappear at the Wall, it may not so straight forward as a journey to make. Garland Tyrell is one you hear about and wonder what is really going on in Highgarden. Darkstar also disappeared but having another POV from Dorne would be a surprise. Auranne Waters would go with the mummer's dragon foreshadowing. Jorah is a real possibility.

2) Will it be interesting and add value? Here again Jorah scores high because everyone loves tortured souls (Jaime, Sam, Jon). Jeyne Westerling is another potentially strong female character to fill the gap left by Catelyn and perhaps Cersei and Brienne if they bite the dust. There is mystery around Darkstar, Qaithe and Arellas. There may be more to Loras than he puts on. Osha may have another bigger role to play and through her, we would have the story of Rickon.

Anywho, the possibilities are there. I am sure GRRM will not disappoint.

He can also throw a curveball and give us Sandor Clegane as the POV. Now, that would accomplish both goals but I think its unlikely.

 

[Kalhaven]

He can also throw a curveball and give us Sandor Clegane as the POV. Now, that would accomplish both goals but I think its unlikely.

Yes please

 

[Werthead]

Sorry Justine, it's pretty much an open secret who the new PoV will be, and it's not the Lady in Red.

Not sure what to make of this statement. Mel is a new POV, but not the new hitherto-unrevealed POV. The identity of that person is definitely not an open secret.

There is a lot of speculation that the new POV is actually an epilogue character, and therefore probably too minor (even if we have met them before) to be easily guessable.

In addition, GRRM's comments about Cersei and Sansa are that he has written chapters for them for The Winds of Winter and there is some debate about moving them to ADWD instead so people won't have to wait several more years to see them again. Neither are 'locked' into ADWD, to my knowledge, and are prime candidates for removal should ADWD come in too long.

As for candidates, I would probaby rule out anyone in the South, as ADWD is not covering that area. Loras, the Blackfish and the Hound seem unlikely candidates. Plus, during the Melisandre clues he explicitly ruled out Sandor and Loras, and it would be weird to suddenly reintroduce one of them into the mix having just ruled them out.

GRRM has also ruled out Howland Reed, Varys and Littlefinger as ever becoming POV characters.

A prime candidate would be a character in the North or the East. Jorah Mormont would be a good choice, as would someone like Osha, maybe Dolorous Edd (seems possibly redundant to have a third POV on the Wall though)?

A good possibility would be either Maege Mormont or Galbert Glover, two senior lords of the North who are currently MIA because Robb despatched them to Howland Reed to help arrange the attack on Moat Cailin before the Red Wedding, and noticeably both know about his proclamation making Jon Snow his heir. So that's definitely a storyline that needs to be followed up at some point.

 

[TK-421]

Thank you Wert and those are very good possibilities as well.

Since GRRM seems to have a leaning towards POV's of children, I would also suggest Shireen Baratheon. We were introduced to her in another POV and she brings an interesting perspective. She may also play an important role.

This is of course a possibility as we know Davos is sent away on a mission for Stannis and R'hllor knows where Mel is going to end up. And if Stannis dies, Shireen gives us another great insight into what is happening up there.

Another character that is a possibility is Illyrio Mopatis. I offer this possibility as there has been alot of speculation as his true motives and true connections. Perhaps GRRM cares to start revealing a greater conspiracy playing behind the scenes. There are only two more books after ADWD after all.

 

[No One]

Werthead - I like the ideas of Maege Mormont or Galbert Glover becoming a POV. The more Howland Reed is held in the background, the more important he becomes.

I wouldn't be surprised though if it was Osha or even Rickon.

Here's my wish for the new POV - Nymeria. As the only wolf currently alive and seperate from it's owner (and with speculation that Arya's blindness will help enhance her warging) why not a few short chapters on Nymeria tearing up the riverlands with Arya at the helm of an army of wolves?

Then there's Hodor, of course, which would be brilliant.

 

[Ursa major]

Then there's Hodor, of course, which would be brilliant.

It would be a new direction for GRRM: the readers would have to be fully involved in developing the story during a Hodor POV. (And there'd be no temptation for GRRM to overwrite the POV, or get involved in info-dumping; and no worries of a Meerese-knot nature.)

 

[Werthead]

GRRM has joked about doing a Hodor POV, but no, that's not going to happen

Illyrio seems redundant as well:

Spoiler

Especially since Illyrio has a major appearance in Tyrion's first two POV chapters and won't be needed again until Dany reaches the west coast and is ready to cross to Westeros, which I suspect won't be until Book 6.

He's also said in the past Rickon won't be a POV because of his age. Writing Bran, a seven-year-old when the series started, was tough enough, but a five-year-old would be pretty difficult. The wolf POVs I think will also stay within the context of their warged partner's POVs, so stuff with Summer in Bran's POV and maybe Nymeria in Arya's, but not Nymeria just by herself.

Here's another one: Tormund Giantsbane. He escaped from the battle on the Wall, is in a different location from the other Northern POVs, he could give us a lowdown on the state of play beyond the Wall and we could see him deciding to go his own way or take up Stannis' offer. It's also possible he will come across Bran's party during his travels.

 

[No One]

He's also said in the past Rickon won't be a POV because of his age. Writing Bran, a seven-year-old when the series started, was tough enough, but a five-year-old would be pretty difficult. The wolf POVs I think will also stay within the context of their warged partner's POVs, so stuff with Summer in Bran's POV and maybe Nymeria in Arya's, but not Nymeria just by herself.

Agreed that any Nymeria/wolf chapters will essentially be an extension of Arya's story - that's why I'd love to see it.

Didn't realize that Martin had written off Rickon as a possibility. That strikes me as odd seeing as Rickon must be close to 6 years old by the end of AFFC (it seems likely that Arya has turned 11 during the course of AFFC and she started at 9). If Martin saves Rickon for the 6th/7th books then wouldn't he be at least the same age as Bran? Of course, by then there probably won't be much room for developing a new POV.

On a slightly different subject, does anyone know if Martin still intends to introduce a time-gap or has that been thrown out altogether?

 

[Lofwyr]

I imagine the time jump has been largely done away with. I kind of hope he still includes at least a minor one somewhere...but the ending of AFFC doesn't seem positioned to handle a skip-forward nearly as well as the end of ASOS.

 

[No One]

I imagine the time jump has been largely done away with. I kind of hope he still includes at least a minor one somewhere...but the ending of AFFC doesn't seem positioned to handle a skip-forward nearly as well as the end of ASOS.

You're right - there was a lot about the end of ASOS that was clearly set-up for a time-gap. Sansa at the Eyrie, Arya and Tyrion heading East, Dany "settling" down as Queen, Jon as LC, etc. Even though Martin didn't follow up with the 5 year jump, it actually helped ASOS be a better book in a lot of ways. Shame it's created the current problems though.

As for hoping for a minor skip and the ending of AFFC, also agreed on both counts. I wanna see the kids grown up.

 

[Centurvian]

First time posting so I am a little nervous. But what if Mel is just using Stannis. What if she knows that he is not AA reborn but knew he would be the only person he could convince that he was through is wife’s faith. What if she has always meant to sacrifice Stannis? I know it’s kind of a stretch but GRRM likes to shock us. As far as the wall coming down. It seems almost too obvious that someone will blow the horn. But what if the Others us the same door Bran and Sam used at the nights keep. Not sure how they utter the words but that’s one way they could get through the wall with out it tumbling down. Again just some of my speculation I thought I would throw in the mix.

Please be gentle

Cent