Towers of Midnight (CAUTION! Contains Spoilers!)

Yes, I've heard the Aiel Dreadlords theory, and it seems logical. If that's the case, then could one of the Forsaken be behind it? I'd be interested if it was Demandred, finally making his move. Not sure if it's one of the mindtrapped Forsaken, though.
 
It must have been happening for some while, i.e. before the forsaken were freed, if they have accumulated enough male Aiel channellers. My bet is it's related to what happened to Luc/Isam, after all wasn't he up in the blight to kill Janduin?

I still have no idea where Demandred is, wasn't the South mentioned at some point?
 
Got to agree that Brandon Sanderson has done a decent job of hurrying the story along without feeling too rushed. Good to see several loose ends being tied up in this book, although the Seachan remain a big issue in so many ways. We had another couple Foresaken off'd as well which must help with the Last Battle looming. Though with Mesaana's current condition it might be in the interests of Moridin to arrange an assasination and then see if she can be resurrected ala Aginor with mental facilities intact.

Anyone else think Egwene's ability to create new cuellendor (sp) will come into play with new seals for the Dark One's prison?

Of course that'll mean that the whole cycle continues anew until the seals degrade again.

Demandred probably needs his own thread to discuss who he could be :)
 
I hadn't thought of the possibility of Mesaana being killed off so that the Dark One could resurrect her, new body and all. It might be a bit late in the game for a sudden reappearance, though.

I'd forgotten all about Egwene's ability to create cuendillar, too. Could be very useful, if only the two would work together.

I must check and see if we've got a Demandred thread here (rather than an "Is Taim Demandred" thread or something;)). If not, I might start one.:)
 
But what about what happened to Aviendha? Can that really come to pass, was it THE future or A future? I found that part to be one of the most disturbing things in the whole series...
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Yes! I loved this bit most of all, Aviendha's been one of my favourite characters all the way through, but that bit was amazing. It's one of the bits that I've been properly dwelling on, too.

I love that they finally rescued Moiraine, and the thing with Thom was quite cute, although I wonder if it's just for the "awwwh" factor, or if it actually has relevance later on.

If anything, I'm even more excited for the final installment, and I may be a bit controversial in saying this, but I hope Rand decimates the Seanchan. I just can't like them, I mean yes, I understand that land used to be theirs and the people on it were meant to "watch for the Return" but were the Seanchan told to slaughter anyone who didn't fit in with their little plan? They seem to forget they're all meant to be on the same side. They seemed to turn up in Falme ready for a battle, which to me shows lack of forward planning if they expected their obviously hostile army to be welcomed back as long lost brothers. Gawd, they frustrate me so much I swear I can actually feel my blood pressure rising... Someone's got to sort them out and teach them a lesson, and my vote goes to either Rand or Egwene.

(oh, and to anyone replying to this post, I can't usually post on this forum, as my home computer is broken, but I love long WOT rants so if anyone has any comments to make or just wants to discuss please email me :) )
 
Welcome back, Bunny - even if it is for a flying visit!:)

Hmm - I'd forgotten about compulsion. I'm not sure if it would effect her eyes, though; something which the characters mention in the book. I'd only just finished a reread before ToM came out, and for some reason I remembered Sheriam (I think) talking about the 13x13 method of turning someone to the shadow. It seemed odd to mention it earlier on in the series, but never refer to it (or see it used) again.
 
It was kind of amazing how all the random story threads are being woven together. I wonder how much of it was laid out in advance by Jordan and how much is to the credit of Sanderson. It's nice for the books to finally bring us more answers than questions.

I'm still wondering what's going on with Padan Fain. It would be too strait forward for him to show up at The Last Battle with an army of Trollocs. I think he's the wild card in the next book, he hates Rand and the Dark One. That will provide more than a little chaos.

What I would really like to know is what is going on at the Black Tower. There must be at least one Forsaken behind it. As far as the gateways I doubt that there's another dreamspike preventing them, but I have no idea what's behind it.

Over all I really enjoyed the book. The battle in the world of dreams was awesome.
 
Things re coming together quite well, aren't they. I'm sure Jordan left behind extensive notes on most of the really important ones. As for the others, I can't really say either. I'm not sure Jordan ever planned to close off all the loose ends. It will be interesting to see what happens with Fain, and the black tower. I wouldn't be surprised if they were using another dreamspike, but it could just as easily be something else. Brandon Sanderson seems to introduce new elements to the story regularly, which is good.
 
This may just be me, but did anyone else get the impression reading TOM that there are two of Tam al'Thor(s) running around? I don't believe it was just the story timelines being out of sync. For most of the last two books Tam has been with Rand, but at the same time he has been training men in Perrin's army. He conveniently left for the Two Rivers for some unknown reason before Perrin's army went to meet with Rand. My thought is that the Tam with Perrin was actually one of the Forsaken who took off when he found out they were going to see Rand. Because at this point Rand seems to be able to recognize Forsaken and Darkfriends at a glance, and they made a point of Rand with his Tam in a hugging scene.

Or did I miss something?:confused:
 
It did jar a little, after having read Rand and Tam's reunion in tGS, and then seeing him again in Perrin's chapters in ToM, but I put it down to the differences in the timeline between the two POVs. I'll have to take that into consideration when I reread it next (which will probably be soon, coinciding with a bookclub-style readthrough on another site).

That reminds me: someone on the Shadow's side may have been influencing events for Perrin's army. During Masema's POV at the start of tGS, we see that he is visited by a vision of the Dragon Reborn, but if it isn't Rand, then who is it?:confused: Was Graendal involved in that, one of the other mindtrapped Forsaken, or someone else?
 
I'd sort of erasde Masema from my memory - really should do a re-read.

Pretty sure Tam was with Perrin, afterall he appeared after Nynaeve found out where Perrin was from Mat, no?
 
There was a moment in ToM where Tam seemed to be in two places at once. When Rand returned to Tear (I think it was Tear) after having gone to Tar Valon, he met shortly with Tam. After that, Tam was with Perrin for the rest of the book. I remember thinking that it was odd since Brandon Sanderson made no mention of Tam returning to Perrin via a gateway. Tam just seems to show up wherever he is needed. It could be that one of those men is a servant of the Dark One. That would be interesting.

But I definitely felt that I had missed something, as well, when I read that.
 
There was a moment in ToM where Tam seemed to be in two places at once. When Rand returned to Tear (I think it was Tear) after having gone to Tar Valon, he met shortly with Tam. After that, Tam was with Perrin for the rest of the book. I remember thinking that it was odd since Brandon Sanderson made no mention of Tam returning to Perrin via a gateway. Tam just seems to show up wherever he is needed. It could be that one of those men is a servant of the Dark One. That would be interesting.

But I definitely felt that I had missed something, as well, when I read that.

I'm pretty sure "the two Tams" is just a timeline thing. Perrin's story appears to be significantly behind Rand's for most of the book. Tam leaves Perrin about 3/4 of the way through ToM saying he has to go and he can't say why but it has something to do with Rand. I'm assuming that he has to go to the meeting with Rand that takes place near the end of TGS. Tam then meets Min about half way through ToM making it appear that he is in two places at once. Rand then sends Tam to the two rivers instead of returning him to Perrin. This works with Perrin's story as once Tam leaves Perrin's army in the book he never came back.
 
I'd agree that the time lines jarred at one point and that Rands story arc was ahead of Perrins. I wouldn't give any thought to a dark Tam as I think Perrin and Rand would have the ability to recognise one as such (alluding to their particular skill sets).

If I can recall correctly back in the Gathering Storm Rand sees Perrin talking to Galad. This would suggest that Rands story had pulled ahead of Perrins. I remember thinking that Perrin and Galad had (reasonably) companionably joined forces until ToM orchestrated the conflict between them.
 
The Tam timeline thing was the only jarring thing I found in the entire book. It was a good solid read (about 3.5 stars, imo), though I think it could have been a little tighter than it was. Sanderson should have been able to cut about 150 pages from the overall length, but I enjoyed the book, nevertheless, and I look forward to the conclusion.

Outstanding questions: Just who are those red-masked Aiel types in the epilogue? What is up with Aviendha's vision? What is going to happen with the Seanchan, and the proposed second attack on the White Tower? What is going to happen in Malkier? In Caemlyn? The Black Tower???
 
Well, just finished it and before I say anything else it has to be said that I really enjoyed it!

Part of me finds myself viewing these last three books as a connected trilogy, the Jordan/Sanderson books that make up the end of the Wheel of Time, and looking at it like that, as is sometimes the case this middle book is (hopefully) the weakest of the three, not making it bad but just because it is the middle part, everything rotating from the set up in TGS, to the climax in TMOL; all the little pieces being moved into their final places for teh grand conclusion next year.

There were so many little bits I enjoyed, the dream battle, especially the showdown at the end, but also when Perrin ran across Egwene and showed her a thing or two! I felt the forging of Perrin's hammer was exceptionally well done; and so many of the meetings were done so well I found myself smiling as they met - Galad and Morgase -in fact her meeting with all her children; but stealing the show Mat and Perrin (and the badger).

I found myself worrying that there would be no rescue of Moiraine until the last book, but was rather pleased with the way it was accomplished - and did Mat's escape change the rules of the board game, as suddenly Olver won the unwinable? Also enjoyed the confirmed revelation of Noal as Jain Farstrider.

There was so much to enjoy that I'm probably going to forget half of what I wanted to mention or ramble on for far to long!

The characterisations remained strong enough, I like the fact that I get frustrated with some of the characters, just because of what they are doing - and I disagree with it. It makes them more human. I'm not so sure about Egwene determined to stop Rand breaking the last few seals...

I don't know if I missed something, but was there mention of there being someone close to Perrin who was ready to act against him - and did I miss the revelation or is it still to come?

It was kind of amazing how all the random story threads are being woven together. I wonder how much of it was laid out in advance by Jordan and how much is to the credit of Sanderson. It's nice for the books to finally bring us more answers than questions.

From what I recall with some of Jordan's last posts on his website, he had got the conclusion pretty much planned out, with various segments written, including, I think, the last chapter. It makes me wonder whether Sanderson has been completely rewriting it to make it all smooth, or whether there are still some words of Jordan in place. I'd imagine it to be the first. Whatever the case, if RJ did get to write the last chapter part of me would like to see it as he wrote it, so that the man who created the series gets the last word. (No offence to BS who is a magnificent writer in his own right.

Thing will wrap up in A Memory of Light. Before he died, Robert Jordan had planned to finish the series with just one last book. I believe he planned to leave a lot of loose threads hanging.

I'd read this too, Jordan swearing that book 12 would be the last one even if it was a 3000 page monster. I'd have liked to seen it happen like that, just to follow his wishes, that being said it would have been virtually impossible to carry around, especially in hardback form, while the paperback would have just disintegrated! Although breaking it into three could be seen by the publishers to try and get as much money as possible from a series and author that will never publish again, realistically it is the only way it could have been done.

As to the loose threads, again I remember reading that Jordan wanted them left because life goes on after events finish. A war will come to en end, but the lives of the people go on, events for individuals are never as neatly wrapped up in real life as they are in fiction, they carry on with ramifications and escalations despite the driving force of war. Sadly the best example to give is The Wheel of Time itself. RJ's untimely passing left his epic unfinished, and yet it continues...

Anyway, just 11 months to wait now
 
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Something else that I meant to mention (As if the previous post was not enough):

Mat, as he has developed has grown into this luck based warrior character, but his dress sense has changed as well, for a long time now he has worn his long coat and floppy hat.

He is associated with Ravens in more than one way, and for quite a while I've been thinking the only thing missing was an eyepatch.

So when his eye is plucked out in the tower of Ghenjei I was not surprised. It occurs to me that over the course of time, Mat has come to resemble the Norse god, Odin... one-eyed, coat, hat, carries a staff, Ravens on each shoulder...
 
I think I remember hearing somewhere along the line that all of the three main male characters were based on Norse myth - Rand = Tyr, Mat = Odin, and Perrin = Thor. Before I'd heard that, I'd wondered about Perrin and Mat, but until Rand lost his hand I'd no idea he might be connected to Tyr.:)
 
Duh, Perrin and the hammer it seems so obvious but I did not even think about it until you mentioned it then; and Rand as Tyr (obviously) never even made my radar.
 

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