Discussing the Writing Challenges -- November and December 2010

[Precise Calibre]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

Distant relative of the Q-36 Space Modulator?

 

[Mag the Mighty]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

Just reading the discussion regarding my story, and thinking more deeply about it than I maybe did while I was writing it as a result...

I think what Judge says about the end justifying the means (as far as Pyett sees it anyway) is what I was thinking. I'm not sure that it actually does, because yeah tyranny, cannibalism (possibly as part of some sacrificial rite etc) is evil, but rape, plunder etc is, well, evil too. I think Pyett is so disgusted and angered by the activities of priest-kings (and proud of having dethroned them) that he is in a sense willing to tolerate (even while disapproving of) the sins of his own men - mainly avarice and lust in the snippet.

That of course doesn't mean he's right, necessarily. I think it is problematic that he doesn't seem to try or want to stop his men (although it is only 75 words!), and that maybe is down to complacency at his own perceived moral rightness, and maybe acceptance that that is how war is fought in his particular culture. To go back to the example of Wellington mentioned above, I think that at the time his relatively benign treatment of civilians and besieged towns was a little frowned upon by some - the idea was that if you took a town by siege or storm you absolutely pillaged and destroyed the place as a lesson to the next town, so that they would not offer resistance. Plus, Pyett's troops are mercenaries - maybe the loot, rape etc is their payment "in kind" for their service. Which casts Pyett in an even more dubious light, really.

I think he'd be a better ruler than the priests insofar as just about anybody would be better than a bunch of crazed cannibal-theocrats, but that doesn't mean he's going to be winning any prizes for benevolent government...

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

I don't see any justice, twisted or otherwise, in gang-raping the slave girls in retaliation for what their masters did.

It's just more evil and suffering.

It doesn't bode well for the sort of justice Pyett will mete out when he's in charge.

I got the impression the girls were in fact, prior to the battle, the free women of the town and therefore to some extent, responsible for the cannibalistic rituals of the priests. As would likely be the norm in such a situation. It may well be the rapes are their just reward.

ooooh I can see that getting a reaction.

However, I understand (documentaries, etc) there are some civilisations, even existing today, where gang rape of a female is used as a punishment with all (except close relations) being expected/required to take part. I'm not using this as justification, more an example of what a disgusting and depraved animal the human species is.

By the way Pyett, that reference to Priest-Kings :- Gor by any chance?

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

I take it that Wilfred is meant to be a composite of us all. (Noting that Chris has chosen to make his archetypical moderator male. It could just as well have been Winifred.)

But moderators don't edit remarks because they are stupid or because somebody regrets them. We don't edit posts on request at all. Otherwise, we might be doing it all day.

We might be coaxed into editing thread titles with spelling errors, though, because every time they come up under New Posts they do rather grate on the nerves.

It may well be the rapes are their just reward.

In which case the men of the town should be raped, too. But it does say that the girls were slaves.

And I don't know that cannibalism is worse than rape. It is horrifying and disgusting, but what happens to an already dead body does not strike me as more evil than causing a living person to suffer. It depends on whether the people being eaten are slaughtered to be eaten. If they are a ritual sacrifice, then it is the sacrifice itself that is evil.

 

[chrispenycate]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

Coaxed? I'd really have appreciated putting the apostrophe into "How does one edit ones manuscript?" But that's me. And even then I don't think it would be right for the writing challenge, but there are moments…

The pedantry was not put on for this site; it's inherent.

(Noting that Chris has chosen to make his archetypical moderator male. It could just as well have been Winifred.)

or Francis, or something else non gender specific. But political anything was never my forte, let alone political correctness.

 

[Parson]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

I got the impression the girls were in fact, prior to the battle, the free women of the town and therefore to some extent, responsible for the cannibalistic rituals of the priests. As would likely be the norm in such a situation. It may well be the rapes are their just reward.

ooooh I can see that getting a reaction.

If you speak that aloud in some quarters your end will come sooner than you imagine.

However, I understand (documentaries, etc) there are some civilisations, even existing today, where gang rape of a female is used as a punishment with all (except close relations) being expected/required to take part. I'm not using this as justification, more an example of what a disgusting and depraved animal the human species is.

Because people sometimes do things in this way does not in any sense make them moral, acceptable, or understandable.

 

[chrispenycate]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

Mouse,

I was wrong. It was Mag's piece that insinuated that rape was the lesser of the evils.

Actually, you weren't wrong; your post was about the two pieces, and nowhere stated that HJ had incorporated rape; it's just how Mouse chose to read it.

But it seems that the sins chosen as deadly are all sins of intent, not action; I wonder why that is? It is more dangerous to grow wrathful at someone than strike them down, to feel desire for someone than to indulge that desire, even forcefully, to do nothing rather than do something wrong.

It's almost as if, rather than being sins themselves, they are the roots from which sin can grow, but they can be experienced and resisted; which must be slightly into the camp of virtue, no? Surely feeling lust and restraining oneself must give positive points even (I would have thought) relative to not feeling an attraction at all.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

Coaxed? I'd really have appreciated putting the apostrophe into "How does one edit ones manuscript?" But that's me.

No, that's not just you. Apostrophes are an obsession of mine.

It's worse, of course, if I carelessly put one in or leave one out myself, when I am typing too fast and I hit submit before I've gone over what I have written. Encountering such mistakes later chills my blood.

Going back to Mag's story. Pyett did say whatever happens to the temple girls would be the lesser evil. Which would include killing them, which is something that does happen to female prisoners after the men are done raping them. Not to mention that they are sometimes injured in the course (or as a result) of repeated rapes, and die later. Being brutally ravished again and again and then dying of it ... that's surely being tortured to death. So Pyett's whatever could in fact be a greater evil than anything the priests ever did.

Unless, of course, one considers females and/or slaves to be lesser beings.

So, basically, I am hating Pyett. Which might be in line with what Mag intended.

 

[Lacivetta]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

I However, I understand (documentaries, etc) there are some civilisations, even existing today, where gang rape of a female is used as a punishment with all (except close relations) being expected/required to take part. I'm not using this as justification, more an example of what a disgusting and depraved animal the human species is.

It's used as a weapon of war in contemporary times too - recognised as a war crime by the UN in 2008. My own take on the piece is that if you are going to write something that is obviously controversial/offensive, then it's worth being really clear about what you're saying (in your head and try to get it on the page) and also that the wordcount for something as complex as you're trying to convey may need to be greater.

Although short and complex... 'For sale: baby shoes, never worn.'

 

[Vertigo]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

It's** interesting; it seems to me that Mag's story has generated more comment than any other single story that I have seen in the challenge since I became involved (which admittedly is not long). That alone leads me to think it is a very interesting story; it makes us ask questions about morality. Quite an achievment from a 75 word story! I'm impressed Mag!


** I was tempted to leave the apostrophe out after your last post TE

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

** I was tempted to leave the apostrophe out after your last post TE

Actually, you used the apostrophe correctly there, Vertigo. "Its" is a possessive noun; i.e., "that creature is now eating its kill."


"It's" is a contraction of "it is" like you used. "It's about time that victim died."




Both rather grisly examples but one I found appropriate for this case.

 

[Lacivetta]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

I always hate its/it's as most times, the possessive bit does relate the apostrophe (eg John's); however, the pattern with the 's' and pronouns to follow is 'his', 'hers' etc. The number of times I get it wrong though...

Nitpick: Isn't 'its' a possessive pronoun *confused*

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

Nitpick: Isn't 'its' a possessive pronoun *confused*

Yes.

And I think that Vertigo meant that he was tempted to leave out the apostrophe, but resisted the temptation and left it in. Because that is what he did.

 

[Precise Calibre]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

Put plainly; controversy = interesting.

Duly noted, I'll write some of my darker stuff for next time .

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

I always hate its/it's as most times, the possessive bit does relate the apostrophe (eg John's); however, the pattern with the 's' and pronouns to follow is 'his', 'hers' etc. The number of times I get it wrong though...

Nitpick: Isn't 'its' a possessive pronoun *confused*

Well, yes, actually. I seem to have missed a slight detail that I should be strung up for.


On the whole, the English language is rather a bugger to follow, especially for those who don't have it as their native language. It's mostly due to the fact that there are a lot of grammatical rules and exceptions that people can find confusing.

 

[Lacivetta]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

On the whole, the English language is rather a bugger to follow, especially for those who don't have it as their native language. It's mostly due to the fact that there are a lot of grammatical rules and exceptions that people can find confusing.

Gah, tell me about it. I had the dubious benefit of an 80s state education in which some bright spark deemed grammar teaching unnecessary and have been trying to catch up ever since.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

Duly noted, I'll write some of my darker stuff for next time .

You never know what people will like in any particular month, though. Some months humor garners most of the votes, other times something darker.

But I don't think that a story with a positive twist on the theme has ever won.

Darker does draw more attention.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

I think the reason behind that is that people are generally more attracted to the darker side of things because of the so-called "forbidden fruit" theory.


Humor and laughter can all raise our spirits and give a jolly time. But it's the unknown, or the merely glimpsed, that piques curiosity the most and stirs within us the side we never show the world. I think it's more a release of our problems, or more a release of our more primitive, carnal desires, that will garner such interest.


And with that in mind, I'll really have to focus on next month, won't I?

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

Well I'm going to try for dull and silvery then in next month's challenge - He said ducking to avoid the slap that must surely follow.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- September and October

Well, you can surely try for silvery, but do you really want your entry to be dull?