U.F.O. Sightings

[Starbeast]

Identified Flying Craft

Many companies for decades have tried to create actual flying disk shaped aircraft.

(concept art)​

(During World War 2, the Germans tried to fool other countries by hoaxing photos
showing that they have such saucer technology)​

(The U.S. developed the "Flying Flapjack" near the end of World War 2,
but the project was scrapped not long afterwards)

(Another scrapped project from the 1950's)​

 

[skeptical]

My own scepticism of the alien interpretation of UFO's began when I was a teenager. I read a couple of George Adamski's books.
George Adamski - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Then I read an expose of Adamski's books, written by a sceptical person. I realised that I was an idiot to take that crackpot's writings seriously. I also realised from that expose that each and every photo in Adamski's books had been faked. The expose even explained how to fake photos like that, and included a number of such fakes.

Even though I was thoroughly disillusioned, I kept an interest in the subject and I have read of a number of alternative explanations for people's experiences. If you have full information, it is not too hard to find mundane explanations.

For example : any report by individuals (or even small groups) which are eye witness accounts - well, to take them seriously you have to assume that the person(s) recounting the sightings are not :
1. Hoaxers
2. Liars
3. Nutters
4. Dreamers.

That is an assumption that cannot be made, unless there is overwhelming independent evidence.

Another point is that no memory of something dramatic like a UFO, that is more than a few years old, can be considered reliable. Like the trout that grew, UFO stories change in the repeated telling. This does not represent dishonesty. Just the normal fact that human memory is malleable.

There are often clues. Procrastinator's story is almost certainly an aircraft. The flashing light is an absolute give-away. Scramble describes a group of oval lights flashing across the sky in tight formation. That is utterly characteristic of a nearby light reflected off a window glass or similar. Small movement of the reflector translates into apparent rapid speed 'across the sky.'

In the same way, I suspect that Starbeast's black object was probably a 'floater', and the memory of a relatively trivial event has been magnified by the modified memory that comes of retelling a story many times.

None of my explanations, of course, are certain, since I do not have all the facts, and I cannot run any test to check my hypotheses. However, the "aliens are with us" hypothesis seems much, much, less likely.

 

[Parson]

Starbeast, I hope that you did not take what I said as a personal attack. It was in no way meant that way. I have found other people's experiences with UFO's to be interesting. Like I said before, I want them to be true, but to this point the idea of semi hidden aliens does not stack up for me.

 

[J Riff]

Not to mention the Harp stuff..the things one can do with a gigantic microwave...
But, if one ( 1 ) case is true - then we are all idiots for not noticing them.
Talking about Aliens NOT being here is no fun...
I DO know what is covered up in re: human beings..so the coverup part is easy to believe..
Then of course there's the dream, or was it a memory... of the place, like a huge gravel pit, with the loud hypnotic humming... and the people walking like zombies onto the spaceship, while reptile-headed creatures with large glowing sticks stood and watched. It was over in less than half an hour and the ship left before it was our turn....
I am willing to testify before congress about a bunch of stuff as well, sign me up.

 

[J-WO]

Sorry, but those Nazi saucers look like they're from a tv series called Das Photoshop, starring Jurgen Procnow and Justin Bieber.

Why would the Nazi's fake saucers when Saucers only reached public notoriety in 1948? If they were gonna pull such a stunt surely they'd have faked a hovering mega-V2 or some such.

 

[J-WO]

This explains the victory at Gettysberg, no question. Lincoln was trying to make us sleepwalk from the truth with his goddam address!

 

[Peter Graham]

Hmmm.

Starbeast - I am not going to apologise for anything, as I think you are being a little disingenuous. There is no "witch trial" and no reasonable person reading this thread could fail to be impressed by the polite, respectful and intelligent way in which all posters (you and me included) have conducted themselves.

In my last post, I offered to back out of the discussion if I was causing offence. I also said I felt that you are looking for reasons not to provide the proof you say you have. I'm afraid your "witch trial" comment just confirms that.

No point anyone falling out, so I think that's stumps.

Regards,

Peter

 

[Starbeast]

Faked U.F.O.s

Sorry, but those Nazi saucers look like they're from a tv series called Das Photoshop, starring Jurgen Procnow and Justin Bieber.

Why would the Nazi's fake saucers when Saucers only reached public notoriety in 1948? If they were gonna pull such a stunt surely they'd have faked a hovering mega-V2 or some such.

(some say this is a real photo)​

Foo fighters, is what UFOs were called during World War 2 because they looked like glowing spheres much like what people are still reporting today. The Russians, the Germans and the U.S. all reported see strange unidentified craft (spheres of light & saucers), so the Germans thought why not lie and say it was their technology to frighten people. This was a tactic that was used near the end of the war, it didn't help anyways.

View attachment 19063

This explains the victory at Gettysberg, no question. Lincoln was trying to make us sleepwalk from the truth with his ****** address!

I always liked that fake photo, but watch the language dude, the Chons Mods might swoop down on you. I wouldn't want you to get into trouble.

 

[Starbeast]

Starbeast - I am not going to apologise for anything, as I think you are being a little disingenuous. There is no "witch trial" and no reasonable person reading this thread could fail to be impressed by the polite, respectful and intelligent way in which all posters (you and me included) have conducted themselves.

In my last post, I offered to back out of the discussion if I was causing offence. I also said I felt that you are looking for reasons not to provide the proof you say you have. I'm afraid your "witch trial" comment just confirms that.

No point anyone falling out, so I think that's stumps.

Regards, Peter

Ok. But you keep saying "prove it, prove it, prove it, prove it, prove it.."
I have no photos, no spaceships to invite you inside, or alien beings that I can ask to visit you, I only have my wonderful crystal clear memory of the many things I witnessed myself.
However since you keep forgeting what this thread is all about. I will help you to understand...........

1. You can talk about a sighting that you or someone you know has had.

2. I'm curious to hear others talk about experiances, rather than me just blabbering away about my own experiances.

I hope this helps you.

And when the "Disclosure Project" is successful in convincing the U.S. government to finally release all info on aliens from other dimensions and worlds, then we'll all know what's been going on for thousands of years.

 

[Starbeast]

The Unknown and what may happen.......

J Riff: Not to mention the Harp stuff..the things one can do with a gigantic microwave...
If the H.A.R.P. device is real, and is used, it could cause great harm to the planet.

J Riff: But, if one ( 1 ) case is true - then we are all idiots for not noticing them.
I thought that too, but some people refuse to believe that aliens are real, but that's ok with me. One of my best friends who didn't believe in outworlders at all, approached me one day and said:

"The other night my daughter said there is something big over the garage, so my family and I looked and we witnessed a big black saucer shaped craft with a couple of lights on it hover slowly and silently by. It was real low and big as a house, we all just stood still and watched it head west, then it rose up slowly and took off fast into the clear sky."

I've known him for thirty years, he is a tough "no-nonsense" kind of guy, but when I saw his face he looked very worried. He was mostly afraid for his children, that's understandable, but he too was shocked by how close it was.

J Riff: Talking about Aliens NOT being here is no fun...
I DO know what is covered up in re: human beings..so the coverup part is easy to believe..
People easily panick, they don't want people to freak out. Plus, if a government gets their hands on alien technology, I doubt they want to share their discovery.

J Riff: Then of course there's the dream, or was it a memory... of the place, like a huge gravel pit, with the loud hypnotic humming... and the people walking like zombies onto the spaceship, while reptile-headed creatures with large glowing sticks stood and watched. It was over in less than half an hour and the ship left before it was our turn....
I am willing to testify before congress about a bunch of stuff as well, sign me up.

It sounds like a very vivid dream, however, there have been cases where people have been given insight into the future. There are very few rare people who were either blessed by GOD to see visions of the future, or aliens enlightening people to what is going to happen.

Recently within a decade, a number of people seem to be thinking the same thing, that reptilian aliens are returning to enslave people. Long ago, a great number of ancient cultures mention dragons, and they have also depicted them into art, stories and strange tales of reptilian people coming here from a hidden planet in our solar system, PLANET X.


Modern scientists discovered this tenth planet decades ago, it made the headlines everywhere, then suddenly it was hushed up. Because people began to discover that this planet was mentioned by ancient cultures and it has been by Earth (aprox.) every 3600 years. PLANET X, was said to have a race of giants who live on it and they possessed fantastic technology. Some people believe that these giants are evil reptilians that altered our DNA every time they came here and they forced us to build huge structures for them all over the Earth.

Well, if they do return within a few years (which a number of people believe) because it's been roughly 3600 years, then your vivid haunting dream was a vision that became a living nightmare. This senerio was depicted in the movie The FOURTH KIND.

 

[skeptical]

Continuing my sceptical approach, let me mention the idea of government cover ups.

Conspiracy theory is the subject for a lot of academic research, and certain principles are well known. Conspiracies do indeed exist, but for the reason below are generally small and unimportant.

The basic principle I want to point out is related to the betrayal of conspiracies. This usually takes the form of a whistleblower busting open the secrecy. The aforesaid academic research has come up with a 'magic' number - seven.

OK, I am pulling your leg. Nothing magic. It is just an overall average, gained from looking at many conspiracies. Seven is the average number of members of any conspiracy, at which point the probability of betrayal is 50%.

The more people in a conspiracy, the higher the likelihood that someone will spill the beans. When you get to 7, you have a 50:50 chance the secret will be betrayed. If you get to, say, 20 members, the secret is lost. With nearly 100% certainty!

On this principle, the UFO cover up theories fail. Any such cover up will involve more than 20 people, which means the likelihood of a whistle blower busting the secret wide open is 100%. A dead certainty. Such a secret cannot be kept.

Since that has never happened, we can conclude with surety that no such cover up exists.

 

[Starbeast]

Continuing my sceptical approach, let me mention the idea of government cover ups.

Conspiracy theory is the subject for a lot of academic research, and certain principles are well known. Conspiracies do indeed exist, but for the reason below are generally small and unimportant.

The basic principle I want to point out is related to the betrayal of conspiracies. This usually takes the form of a whistleblower busting open the secrecy. The aforesaid academic research has come up with a number - seven.

The more people in a conspiracy, the higher the likelihood that someone will spill the beans. When you get to 7, you have a 50:50 chance the secret will be betrayed. If you get to, say, 20 members, the secret is lost. With nearly 100% certainty!

On this principle, the UFO cover up theories fail. Any such cover up will involve more than 20 people, which means the likelihood of a whistle blower busting the secret wide open is 100%. A dead certainty. Such a secret cannot be kept.

Since that has never happened, we can conclude with surety that no such cover up exists.

Basically, it's difficult for most to absorb the idea that an alien space craft crashed in the desert of New Mexico and aliens were recovered along with the wreckage. However the remaining people who were there as bystanders still to this day remember what happened, because they were threatened they would be killed if they spoke about it. Unfortunately some people that were involved closely with the incident, did try to let other people know what was going on, and they ended up dying from fatal accidents. Including one high ranking officer who documented everything in a journal that was connected with the incident, but before he died, he told his peers that the public has the right to know what is really going on.​

(concept art)​

Some believe the crash did happen and we gained technology from the damaged alien craft like the micro chip, fiber optics, and the laser to name a few. With this new technology we made quick advancements in electronics, like everything from making smaller devices like portable radios, to building giant piloted rockets to leave Earth.​

But some of the aircraft technology was recovered at the end of World War 2 from the Germans, like for example the "flying wing" design, the jet engine and basic rocket propulsion.​

(Remains of a German World War 2 Flying Wing in a museum)​

(German World War 2 jet in a museum)​

(German V-2 rocket in a museum)​

 

[skeptical]

Starbeast

I am sure you are well aware of the fact that the alien interpretation of Roswell is thoroughly debunked.

 

[J Riff]

Oh geeee, no, noooo.... a conspiracy of thousands of people is quite possible...if the MONEY is there. That's how it works, not any other way.
This is a fact, not a theory.
Aliens every 3600 yrs. ... I thot it was more like every hundred years...which puts them back here in...approx 2040...since the last appearance was in Europe during the war.
If this is true, they, the Alien reptile drones (not real living aliens but creatures grown specifically for long voyages in confined space) ...will be here for approx. an hour or less...to grab up lifeforms and leave. They don't care - we are livestock, nothing more, to these barely conscious critters. That's theory...
But the tenth planet is another legend that persists. Astronomers have debunked the heck out of it, so it may have it's origin in something else.
I heard this story too, lonnng ago... we came from another, destroyed planet,. where everything we have achieved on Earth had already been accomplished... then it was destroyed by super-weapons...... something like that, but who knows?
The other part of this theory of 'Alien' visitations is that some 'other', more highly-evolved aliens, noticed that we here on earth had progressed to the point wher we could no longer be regarded as animals, and taken away by the reptile-clones... and these are the white balls or other 'craft' seen zipping about. They are watching and nothing more, and are also not actual Aliens, merely their observers. animal or machine.
That's the thory and it makes some sense... they come here to GET stuff, no other reason...and we are now a protected species... until, one day, finally.... maybe..

 

[skeptical]

Riff

Facts count more than fairy tale stories.

And no. You cannot have a conspiracy of thousands, no matter how much money is there. There will always be people who have a different agenda, and will do crazy things even when it means forfeiting money.

Best example is the Mafia. Those guys have a great incentive plan.
"Keep quiet and you will make heaps of $$$$. Talk and we kill you!"
In spite of this, the various Mafia families keep getting betrayed by members who go to the police. The Mafia are now seriously weakened by repeated betrayals.

So the simple fact is that, if you have too many people in a conspiracy, it will be betrayed.

 

[J Riff]

Oh what nonsense. That's theory. Try ten thousand people - absolutely no prob. Has been done - IS being done.
I guess you think that if someone TALKS ...things will collapse...wrong.
TRY and reveal things that wealthy people have conspired on.... you are 'mentally unbalanced' ...off to jail you go, where someone punches you in the back of the head for twenty bucks and you forget allll about it.
No, they won't 'pay you off'.... to be more clear...what this is - is Crime, highly perfected crime. The C-word has been turned into mush, doesn't mean anything anymore.

 

[skeptical]

Riff

Name, with evidence, any long term conspiracy of 10,000 people that has not been betrayed. It is a mythical animal. It does not exist. No conspiracy of that size remains secret. In fairly short order, it becomes public knowledge and has to operate under the spotlight.

Once something is revealed, it is no longer a conspiracy.

 

[J Riff]

Rubbish. Money talks louder than you and every other great thinker.
Whree did you get this crakpot theory...'no conspiracy of more than blahBlah..." who thinks this junk up>?
Aliens I admit to not knowing anything for sure, but human beings..rich ones and their minions.. get away with huge crimes involving thousands of people that go on for decades, and no super-hero or cops can do anything about it.
Sheesus. Next question.

 

[J Riff]

Sorry.
I went all through the 'Aliens are here/not here argument over on the astronomy board, whre pro Nasa-types can punture each and every theory with glee and scienterrific proof - and I believe them, they have it right.
No-one can, or should have to - Prove _ anything... everyone should just be wondering a bit is all. Certainly, nobody can disprove it, so really there shouldn't be an argument at all, merely speculation as to .."IF they are here - how the heck are they doing it and why can't we have them round to tea?

 

[skeptical]

Riff

I am sorry, but your views appear to be based on personal gut feel rather than empirical data.

My comments on conspiracy theory come from actual researchers who study the subject and find out about real, not made-up, conspiracies. There are any number of conspiracies that run their course and then become public knowledge. They can be studied and their quirks analysed. One quirk, as I have pointed out, is that large numbers of members mean a whistleblower is inevitable.

This is not something I made up. This is real.

Sadly, the whole field of human conspiracies is rife with crackpot theories. I think you have been influenced by those.