New Crackpot Theory

[The Imp]

SPOILERS BELOW






I thought I'd attempt to lighten the mood as we all wait for ADWD by offering what is maybe the craziest crackpot theory ever posted on this board.

Eddard Stark is not dead.

There, I said it. Now for the flimsy "proof"

The first is execution by omission. By that I mean, Eddard wasn't killed in his own POV. Why wasn't he? GRRM could have provided us with an amazing glimpse into the mind/thoughts of someone who thought he was going to live but then suddenly found out he was going to really be executed. Instead we get to experience the execution, which leads me to my second piece of evidence

Arya sees her father from a distance and if he wasn't to look like Eddard I suspect that Arya may not have even thought it was her father. I propose that someone, probably Varys, convinced someone who looked enough like Eddard to stand in his place, assuring the imposter that he would be sent to the Wall, and would receive a large sum of cash in the process. This is admittedly a bit weak, but it is, after all, part of a crackpot theory.

Later, Joffrey brings Sansa up to see the heads on spikes. Sansa thinks that the one that Joffrey says is Eddard doesn't look like him. We are given the explanation that it's covered with tar, etc, still, is this plausible?

Lastly, when Eddard's bones are returned to her, Cat thinks to herself those aren't the bones of Eddard. Maybe nothing, maybe a giant not so red herring, much like the clues we got before the Red Wedding.

Yes, in order for this to be true there are lots of questions that need answering. Why would Varys want to save Eddard? Does GRRM need Eddard later in the series because he is the only one that knows the truth about Jon's lineage, and that will become important? Where has Eddard been if he's alive? What would Varys gain from doing this?

So, what do you guys think? Does this have any legs at all, or should it die a quick and painless death?

 

[No One]

Maybe that's what GRRM meant by a "bittersweet" ending. While all of House Stark perishes, Ned is revealed to be alive and well come the finale.

I would've liked to see the execution played out from Ned's POV though (or any number of other POVs during other major events, but ye gads I think GRRM has enough on his plate!). Arya was the perfect choice for it, imo, simply for the emotive factor of going through it with her.

As to Ned being the only one who knows Jon's true heritage, surely others here have got it right by supposing that's what Howland Reed is for? That is, if and when he chooses to make an appearance.

I know you don't prescribe to this theory yourself Imp, but I'll say what I said before - namely that revoking Ned's death would massively undermine A Game of Thrones as a book. I'd hate to see it happen.

*Ticks the "Quick and painless death" box*

 

[C Of K]

Come on. Exploring this could be good old fashioned fun.
Lets put aside the repercussions it would have on AGOT
and not dismiss it quite yet. I'm pretty sure Ned is dead.
He wouldn't stand by aimlessly as his family is brought to ruin
but this is an interesting theory.

 

[HareBrain]

I can't believe it's true either, but I have to admit the same idea did occur to me as I was reading it, simply because there seemed to be a few clues littered about that in any other book would have meant exactly that.

Maybe it was something he originally toyed with before realising he was writing something with more weight. I doubt he'd name that minstrel Marillion if he was writing it afresh either.

 

[The Imp]

Maybe that's what GRRM meant by a "bittersweet" ending. While all of House Stark perishes, Ned is revealed to be alive and well come the finale.

I would've liked to see the execution played out from Ned's POV though (or any number of other POVs during other major events, but ye gads I think GRRM has enough on his plate!). Arya was the perfect choice for it, imo, simply for the emotive factor of going through it with her.

As to Ned being the only one who knows Jon's true heritage, surely others here have got it right by supposing that's what Howland Reed is for? That is, if and when he chooses to make an appearance.

I know you don't prescribe to this theory yourself Imp, but I'll say what I said before - namely that revoking Ned's death would massively undermine A Game of Thrones as a book. I'd hate to see it happen.

*Ticks the "Quick and painless death" box*

Howland Reed will very likely be the one living person that knows the truth, I agree. I also agree that Ned being alive could undermine AGOT and even the entire series, depending on how it's done.

It's probably more likely that GRRM executed Ned the way he did so that mainacs like me could come up with crackpot theories during massive time gaps in the publication of the books. GRRM plans SOOOOO well in advance that he was able to predict his AFFC/ADWD woes years before they happened.

 

[Boaz]

Cons:

Sansa was on the steps with Eddard. She seemed to think it was him.

If any of the Lannisters (especially Cersei) knew of the false Eddard, I'd have thought that they'd have considered the possibility of trading Eddard for Jaime.

Who was killed on the steps? Why would he consent to death?

Pros:

Various lines could be considered ambigous or at least reinterpreted to support Eddard's non-death. What did Illyrio say to Varys? "If one Hand died, why not another?" And Varys once said something to Eddard like, "I could not save Jon Arryn from himself." And what was the prison roster that Longwaters gave Jaime?

I don't think there are really any pros to this, Imp.

 

[The Imp]

Cons:

Sansa was on the steps with Eddard. She seemed to think it was him.

If any of the Lannisters (especially Cersei) knew of the false Eddard, I'd have thought that they'd have considered the possibility of trading Eddard for Jaime.

Who was killed on the steps? Why would he consent to death?

Pros:

Various lines could be considered ambigous or at least reinterpreted to support Eddard's non-death. What did Illyrio say to Varys? "If one Hand died, why not another?" And Varys once said something to Eddard like, "I could not save Jon Arryn from himself." And what was the prison roster that Longwaters gave Jaime?

I don't think there are really any pros to this, Imp.

If I'm not careful i'm going to start talking myself into this.

Maybe the biggest pro would be how outrageous a twist it would be, and we all know GRRM is very tricksy

Eddard was being held up by two Gol Cloaks. He was on a pulpit, away from everyone else. If this actually did happen, i don't think any of the Lannisters would have been in on it. Assuming for a minute it's true, we really wouldn't know if Ned was a willing participant. He could have been taken from his cell, replaced by a willing imposter who was told he would go to the Wall, and only Varys would know the truth. Maybe Payne as well, which is somehwat problematci for the theory.

 

[Ursa major]

In a way, the number of little clues that The Imp has mentioned almost makes me want to suspect that we're meant to think Ned has survived, if only until events prove us wrong. (I'll admit that Ned's possible survival thought had crossed my mind, so GRRM's plan is working.) I don't think this is because GRRM intended to write something without as much heft (as HB as proposed), but more that it keeps the readers re-examining the circumstances of the execution, and makes the whole thing weightier and more real.

By the way, if Ned is alive, he'll have been spirited away to Essos, ready to convince Dany that Jon is her blood relation. Not that I believe that Jon is: GRRM has left too many clues pointing at that conclusion for it to be true. Possibly.


(Oh, and while reading through Arya's chapter, I noticed a mention of an, or possibly the, red-headed whore.)

 

[Mesanna]

Cons:
Sansa was on the steps with Eddard. She seemed to think it was him.

Ah, but, maybe they had a faceless man who managed to alter his appearance to look like Ned.

For the record, I don't believe this theory is possible, but hey as C of K says, it's a hoot to argue the pros and cons.

 

[Ursa major]

Why would a faceless man let himself be executed? (Unless it's a promotion to go from faceless to headless.)

 

[The Imp]

Why would a faceless man let himself be executed? (Unless it's a promotion to go from faceless to headless.)

I don't think it was a Faceless Man, as one of those guys/gals would have looked exactly like Ned. it's more likely that it was some emaciated nameless man from the black cells that was convinced that this would be his ticket to the Wall and lots of gold.

 

[Ursa major]

Given that he's there to make a declaration of guilt, a substitute would have to have the correct accent (not just of the North but that of the northern nobility), which shortens the list of possible candidates.

 

[The Imp]

Given that he's there to make a declaration of guilt, a substitute would have to have the correct accent (not just of the North but that of the northern nobility), which shortens the list of possible candidates.

Let's go back to the Faceless Man idea for a sec. Varys pays a Faceless Man to be Ned, go to the Wall, then disappear. Meanwhile, the real Ned is safe somewhere in the Free Cities. Joffrey screwed the works up for the FM, but had Varys planned this, the plan was foolproof, even Joffrey-proof. This would explain btw why the head on the spike looked nothing like Ned to Sansa

 

[xLORDSNOWx]

If this is remotely plausible, Jaquen H'ghar would definately be involved. He was amongst a few of the first to leave Kings Landing after the deed was done. Could Ned possibly have closer ties to the Faceless Men than was let known? He did in fact trust his daughter with Syrio Forel, which could further enforce this "crack binge" we're on.

 

[The Imp]

If this is remotely plausible, Jaquen H'ghar would definately be involved. He was amongst a few of the first to leave Kings Landing after the deed was done. Could Ned possibly have closer ties to the Faceless Men than was let known? He did in fact trust his daughter with Syrio Forel, which could further enforce this "crack binge" we're on.

OMG, this actually ties into my other crackpot theory that Syrio and Jaqan are the same person.

I'm getting a little giddy here. Jets up by 7 with less than 2 min to go

 

[viZion]

Maybe the biggest pro would be how outrageous a twist it would be, and we all know GRRM is very tricksy

I'd actually consider this a con. I know GRRM is a great writer but it would be hard to come up with a way that this theory comes true without stinking mightily of deus ex machina. Like:

"Jon Snow is a Targaryen? But who can prove it? OMG! It's Eddard here to save the day!"

I have a long way to go before I can challenge GRRM as a writer.

It would be awesome if this were the knot he's been talking about all along.

 

[The Imp]

I'd actually consider this a con. I know GRRM is a great writer but it would be hard to come up with a way that this theory comes true without stinking mightily of deus ex machina. Like:

"Jon Snow is a Targaryen? But who can prove it? OMG! It's Eddard here to save the day!"

I have a long way to go before I can challenge GRRM as a writer.

It would be awesome if this were the knot he's been talking about all along.

It would be Houdini-like. I don't think deus ex machina as much.

Our viewpoint of Eddard's execution has all the trappings of a magician's performance on stage. Use misdirection, costumes, doubles, etc. to make it appear as if something happened that didn't

 

[Ursa major]

Varys pays a Faceless Man to be Ned, go to the Wall, then disappear.

Which might explain the following phrase from Arya's chapter:

and Varys came rushing over waving his arms

Earlier, The Imp asked

Why would Varys want to save Eddard?

which deserves to be asked of this visible action of his. (In this case, I'd answer: because it's throwing fuel onto the fire of war in Westeros; which would make sense - in his position, Varys ought to be thinking of the good of the state - if we didn't think that Varys probably wants a Westeros at war with itself at some stage, to aid the return of the Targaryens.)

I think there are more than enough hints to allow GRRM to bring Ned back. The problem is that this is what happens in some (most?) of Agatha Christie's books: there are so many clues, half-clues and misdirection that just about anyone can be identified as the murderer in the final chapter. While it maintains the suspense to the end of the book, it hasn't really done anything to enhance Christie's reputation as a great, as opposed to a popular, writer.

 

[C Of K]

Why would Varys want to save Eddard? Does GRRM need Eddard later in the series because he is the only one that knows the truth about Jon's lineage, and that will become important?

Good questions. If one Hand can live, why not a second? Varys risked much to save Tyrion, would he do no less for Jon in order to prove his Targiness?

probably not, but good questions nonetheless.

 

[Mesanna]

Let's go back to the Faceless Man idea for a sec. Varys pays a Faceless Man to be Ned, go to the Wall, then disappear. Meanwhile, the real Ned is safe somewhere in the Free Cities. Joffrey screwed the works up for the FM, but had Varys planned this, the plan was foolproof, even Joffrey-proof. This would explain btw why the head on the spike looked nothing like Ned to Sansa

Yeah, this was pretty much my thinking, except that Joffrey's intervention wasn't planned for. A faceless man might not volunteer to be executed but, for the right money, he would play the part of the condemned man, only to escape en route to The Wall.

As for why Varys would save Eddard ... no idea! It surely couldn't be just to promote war and strife. Varys must have realised that Joffrey and his dearest Mama would manage that just fine on their own. Varys' thinking is very convoluted, and I think he is always at least ten steps ahead of me!