Quick Fire Questions (A Place to Ask and Answer)

[Warren_Paul]

Reminded me of the tracker in The Matrix, Springs. But that was a living machine that could avoid being digested. edit: wrong on details, they shot it with a machine, sucked it out of his belly button I believe.


I know in most sci-fi's I've seen they use injections, to plant it just under the skin, which are surgically removed later. But if you want it to be ingested instead then anything is possible really, but I'd wonder how much it would hurt if the tracker attached to tissue - quite a bit I'd imagine. But I'm no expert on the matter.


It could be biological, something that our body has difficulty digesting - like pepper.

 

[Vertigo]

I guess if the thing is smart it could clamp onto the lining of the stomach. I would say a very simple hook deployed half an hour after eating would do the job quite naturally, no other moving parts needed, just by the movements of the stomach snagging it. Though it might eventually cause an ulcer. As for removing it a signal could be sent to it making it detach from the hook. Maybe the hook is made of something that will breakdown and disolve after a few days/weeks/months/years.

Edit (Paul posted and gave me a thought) possibly just attaching might feel like you've got an ulcer. Though actually I suspect not if it is very small.

 

[David Evil Overlord]

If it's some sort of nanotech, then make it able to shift its shape. If it can match the shape of the molecules in the stomach lining, it should fit them like a jigsaw puzzle piece. No need for nasty, ulcer-making hooks.

Send a signal to tell the tracker to shift shape again, and it should drop off the stomach lining and make its way through the digestive tract and out into the...um, fresh air.

 

[Vertigo]

I'm not sure that Springs has nanotech in her story. Unless of course it's another story.

 

[David Evil Overlord]

Another brilliant idea sunk by a lack of technology indistinguishable from magic.

 

[Vertigo]

Not necessarily - I haven't seen the whole story and nanotech would offer better possibilities.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Where I'm using it is that near the start of the story the antagonist has a tracker planted in prot., which allows her to launch a planetary attack to trap him. I thought, given he was on a base at the time of implantation, the easiest way it could be done was by ingestation. Then, once he/compatriots realise it's a trap, a full body scan carried out shows up the tracker and it gets removed, pretty easily (but not by the people who planted it)

In terms of technology, I'd expect them to have access to nano - it hasn't been a feature of the book but no reason it couldn't be. (although you might have to explain it to the author in very clear, simple, terms.... )

 

[David Evil Overlord]

Well, if I understand it correctly (no promises)...

Nanotech is very small technology. As in billionths of a millimetre small.

A promising line of medical research (I'm told) involves molecules that attach themselves to viruses because they have the right shape -- like a key in a lock -- and the virus can't infect you because this stupid molecule is in the way of all the "machinery" the virus uses.

It should be possible to design a tracker that can alter the shape of its outer shell to match the outer layer of the cells in the stomach lining like a key in a lock. Attached.

Then, to remove, make it change shape so it no longer matches. It should fall off the stomach wall, and gravity and the normal movement of stuff inside the digestive tract should make it move in the general direction of the lavatory. How quickly it moves depends on the needs of your story and the availability of laxatives.

 

[Esfires]

I'd be careful with just throwing nanotechnology of that level into your story to overcome a simple narrative obstacle. Nano tech is world changing stuff and if something like that existed in your universe I would expect to everywhere, to play a role in all aspects of life.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I don't think it would fit anyway cos it sounds to me hard to unattach by prot plus I want a physical tracker to be removed as evidence - old fashioned ulcer enhancer sounds best fit
Ty

 

[Abernovo]

I have a yucky possibility answer, springs.

The problem with mechanical is that it is likely to pass through. If not, it could cause problems - stuck in the digestive tract, or, if programmed to attach, cause infection (foreign bodies and all that).

So... as it's futuristic, could you have a bio-engineered parasite, such as a tapeworm engineered not to grow too much but simply survive? It could have a specific radioactive signature (not entirely sure how that would work) or, perhaps a super-micro-nano burst transmitter implanted inside it.

Removal? Worming tablets?

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Oh, I like that, a worm on a full body scan has a sufficient ick moment to it. Nice one, and then I can do one of those alien moments and present it on someone's desk in a glass jar. Tequila, anyone? Cheers, Aber.

 

[Venusian Broon]

I was going to originally say, that if it was basically mechanical/electrical then it could programmed to find a nice pocket in the digestive tract (say the appendix) and the easiest 'way' of getting rid of it would be to blast the sucker with a big pulse of E-M radiation to fry it.

But then why not take a look at how real parasites work? I saw this on 'Embarrassing bodies' a description of how the hookworm* works. It likes to stay on leaves in water droplets (it's tiny) and when a person brushes past it eagerly attaches it self to the persons skin, burrows in (probably using an anesthestic so that the person doesn't notice), swims in the bloodvessels till it gets to the heart, then crosses over and heads for the lungs (yeuk!) When it reaches there it essentially lives there and lays its eggs, which are then of course breathed out by the person and falls on surfaces (say leaves) where the eggs develop into worms again - and so the cycle repeats.

So in your case, instead of eggs, why not have genetically modified hookworm that instead lay mechanical devices that can signal that they are there (like very small RFID chips, or perhaps even bigger more convoluted things that can really signal back properly) - so that the victim just leaves a cloud of 'here I am' sticky notes everywhere he goes (perhaps have them timestamped at moment of laying and release, so you can reconstruct exactly where he went and when.)

Why do it this way? I suppose because at first as the hookworms are 'natural' any scans for anything mechanical or electrical would be negative, as there is a definite period before the worms start laying. Then hopefully by this stage the person tagged will have been seen as 'clean' and no one will notice the tags being breathed out and applied liberally to all surfaces.

To get rid of them: A very heavy dose of antibiotics and some sort of breathing apparatus possibly so that as the hookworms are being killed off, any devices produced are being collected and destroyed (oh and you'd have to clean the base thoroughly as well...)

*I think it is hookworms, This is from memory.

 

[Colbey Frost]

Anyone got any examples of well written steampunk novels?

 

[Venusian Broon]

I liked 'The Difference Engine' by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling. But steampunk is not really my thing, and I think it's a pretty obvious one that everyone seems to know.

 

[luci2also]

Anyone got any examples of well written steampunk novels?

I don't read many of that type but I do follow the genius girl comic strip on the web. Lot's of visual ideas there.

Also read some Jules Verne and H.G. Wells those easily translate over to steampunk- at least in my thinking.
There are a few 50's science fiction that might translate over easily including some of Edgar Rice Burroughs and Otis Albert Kline.

 

[luci2also]

Oh, I like that, a worm on a full body scan has a sufficient ick moment to it. Nice one, and then I can do one of those alien moments and present it on someone's desk in a glass jar. Tequila, anyone? Cheers, Aber.

For something with easy extraction I'd go with something dermal like under the nail stuck to the hair. It could be small enough to suck up the nasal passage and glob on to a nose hair. Or if it misses that it could catch on an eyelash or in the hair. Sort of like a lice that is mostly benign while annoyingly keeping track of your every move. Maybe something flat and clear that can slap itself up against the eye like a contact. It improves the vision and makes the victim think his eyes have miraculously gotten better.
It could be ironic and imbed itself into the ear, stuck by that nasty wax that few attempt to clean out. Listening to everything you hear while tracking your every move.
If you really want to get under the victims skin you make it a nasty age spot that mocks their vanity.
"Oh, out dermal spot!", he exclaims as he removes the nasty leach.

 

[luci2also]

It is close 3rd, so I suppose that's a question, should it then have the character's venacular when it's in that pov, just as it would in first.

Even in third person it could work but I'd still put it in dialogue. Being as it's from the character's point of view it might work without dialogue but you will definitely get flagged by the copy-edit and I'm not sure there are rules against 3rd person god like view speaking like the character.

On second thought, I think I'd leave it as is even without being dialogue. Give the copy-editor something to think about. After all god can damn well sound the way he/she wants to.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

But the whole chapter is in the character's close point of view, and I can't have it all as dialogue. (I would if I could, believe me....) So, it's not the god/omnipresent narrator's voice, but the character's.
Also, he's not speaking, nor is it close enough to be an internal thought. But it is from his close point of view. We're walking through the scene on the character's shoulder, experiencing it from them, not an omnipresent perspective.

And, when you say it'd get flagged by the copy edit, isn't this the sort of thing GRRM is doing with his pov approach? That the voice changes - and the approach, and the knowledge, acccording to the character who is the focus of that chapter? So, why would they flag it?

 

[chrispenycate]

Grumbles at Luci, too, also – that screen with the inverted commas down there – yes, there at the bottom right of the post – is a multiquote, enabling you to avoid doing multiple sequential posts.

Tapeworms hatch from eggs (hey, those are just droppy off body segments; I wonder if tapeworms are asexual. Well, finding a mate in those conditions might be a bit problematical, and I don't remember them having another vector), and precoding an organic radio ping receiver/data transmitter into a genetic structure sounds a bit too unlikely to me. How about tuning it acoustically, so a tuned ultrasonic burst brings back the data in reverberations? Short range, and easier to use in the bath than with the air/skin interface, but unless you knew about the thing, unlikely to be detected by chance.