(ADWD Spoilers), Alert, Jon Snow

[dragonstone]

Parris and George got married earlier this year, after living togther ofr something like 30 years (correct me someone if I'm wrong)

Anyone notice that in ASOIAF literally all married men are stupid, and the only smart ones either aren't married or don't get along with their wives: Doran, Littlefinger, Varys etc.

 

[garion77]

Anyone notice that in ASOIAF literally all married men are stupid, and the only smart ones either aren't married or don't get along with their wives: Doran, Littlefinger, Varys etc.

Eddark Stark was married... Stannis is married... That's all I got... You might have a point there...

 

[Mesanna]

Yeah Robb was smart ... right up until he decided to get married!

 

[The Imp]

Anyone notice that in ASOIAF literally all married men are stupid, and the only smart ones either aren't married or don't get along with their wives: Doran, Littlefinger, Varys etc.

Tywin Lannister was a widower, but I don't think he gained an IQ points when his wife died. Randyll Tarley is still married. Davos is married. Tyrion is married although not comsumated. Walder Frey is married, and certainly not a dunce.

Very few characters, married or unmarried, get along. Ned/Cat, Dany/Drogo are the only two happy marriages i can think of that are certainties.

 

[Eulalia]

My impression is that GRRM is influenced by the history around the time of the Wars of the Roses.

I read light and serious history books, at times, and what he seems to be portraying is related to the expectations of marriages of the noble class. They were not expected to be love matches, although occasionally that happened. They married for dynastic and monetary reasons, and virtuous women were expected to behave like Sansa. There was a hope that you would learn to tolerate, or learn to love your spouse (unessential)and loyalty with obedience from the woman was required.

 

[The Imp]

Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again. But the skulls were here as well, the skulls were all around him. Melisandre had seen his danger before, had tried to warn the boy of it. Enemies all around him, daggers in the dark. He would not listen.

I was looking for something else and came across this passage. The implication seems to be that Jon was warging at the time of the assassination "attempt".

Needle, what do you think of this interpretation, in light of your theory?

 

[Needle]

Imp, I agree it seems to be proof he is warging, don't now how I missed that little tid-bit!
Now a man, now a wolf, now a man again- definitely says he is warging, between 3 bodies maybe, I'd say the corpse first, then the wolf, then himself(but the skulls where here as well)

had tried to warn the boy of it- he is killing the boy, the man will remain.

he would not listen- again referring to the boy, who would not listen.

If this had been said differently it could have been bad for my theory, but as is it seems further proof. The single phrase about the boy changes all, as we know he has been working towards killing the boy throughout aDWD.

By the way, where did you find this, I am looking and can not find it?

 

[Ursa major]

Halfway down the second page of Mel's chapter. The paragraph in which these words lie () starts with:

The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling....

 

[dragonstone]

Eddark Stark was married... Stannis is married... That's all I got... You might have a point there...

Ned was not all that smart and was out-trumped even by village idiot Cersei.

 

[The Imp]

Imp, I agree it seems to be proof he is warging, don't now how I missed that little tid-bit!
Now a man, now a wolf, now a man again- definitely says he is warging, between 3 bodies maybe, I'd say the corpse first, then the wolf, then himself(but the skulls where here as well)

had tried to warn the boy of it- he is killing the boy, the man will remain.

he would not listen- again referring to the boy, who would not listen.

If this had been said differently it could have been bad for my theory, but as is it seems further proof. The single phrase about the boy changes all, as we know he has been working towards killing the boy throughout aDWD.

By the way, where did you find this, I am looking and can not find it?

RIght near the start of the Mel chapter, unless I'm remembering incorrectly

 

[dragonstone]

Tywin Lannister was a widower, but I don't think he gained an IQ points when his wife died. Randyll Tarley is still married. Davos is married.

Not sure Randyll Tarly is all that smart off the battle-field, in fact I think it's said as much at one point - something like he's only useful in war times. Also not sure he has all that good a relationship with his wife - something to do with Sam remembering him roaring at her that she'd already ruined one son.

Tyrion is married although not comsumated.

True - but is estranged from his wife

Walder Frey is married, and certainly not a dunce.

Now THAT is true - he seems to have gotten smarter with each marriage...

Very few characters, married or unmarried, get along. Ned/Cat, Dany/Drogo are the only two happy marriages i can think of that are certainties.

I know their marriage is creepy, but Tommen and Margaery get along - even if Tommen doesn't even understand the whole thing.

 

[Needle]

Imp, I agree it seems to be proof he is warging, don't now how I missed that little tid-bit!
Now a man, now a wolf, now a man again- definitely says he is warging, between 3 bodies maybe, I'd say the corpse first, then the wolf, then himself(but the skulls where here as well)

had tried to warn the boy of it- he is killing the boy, the man will remain.

he would not listen- again referring to the boy, who would not listen.

If this had been said differently it could have been bad for my theory, but as is it seems further proof. The single phrase about the boy changes all, as we know he has been working towards killing the boy throughout aDWD.

Okay found the whole thing, in context, so to speak. I believe the explaination above is still pretty accurate. I do believe by the time the daggers came in for real it was Jon killing the boy. She sees Jon's face at first then only half-seen shadows so she can't really see the face of the man who is Jon.

The man finally listened when he got that letter!

 

[garion77]

Imp, I agree it seems to be proof he is warging, don't now how I missed that little tid-bit!
Now a man, now a wolf, now a man again- definitely says he is warging, between 3 bodies maybe, I'd say the corpse first, then the wolf, then himself(but the skulls where here as well)

had tried to warn the boy of it- he is killing the boy, the man will remain.

he would not listen- again referring to the boy, who would not listen.

If this had been said differently it could have been bad for my theory, but as is it seems further proof. The single phrase about the boy changes all, as we know he has been working towards killing the boy throughout aDWD.

By the way, where did you find this, I am looking and can not find it?

This is why I feel Jon isn't one of the heads of the Dragon... Mel never saw anything in the fire about Jon and Dragons. I still believe Jon will defeat the Others alone without Dany. Dany will be busy conquering the Seven Kingdoms...

 

[Brian G Turner]

So, I was originally against the idea that Jon snow might in any way be dead, and that the whole event served as little more than a Republic Serial cliffhanger.

And yet, since posting in this thread, I've warmed to the possibility that Jon Snow might become some form of "Other". If Dany is "fire", then what more literal way for Jon to be "ice" - especially when we have the precedent of Coldhands previously, who may or may not even be a blood relation in Benjen Stark.

 

[Narkalui]

But Jon is ice AND Fire. I made a lengthy post on the subject earlier this afternoon on the GRRM confirms that fans have guessed the ending! thread. I'd post a link but you can't copy and paste on a kindle Fire

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

what worries me is that if Jon really IS dead (and Nark, if he is he can still represent Ice and Fire) and comes back as some kind of wight, we won't get his POV chapters anymore (will we?) Cat's chapters ended when she became unCat. the reason this worries me is that the only other person on the wall we get POVs from is Mel, and I don't want to experience everything happening at the wall through her eyes, she will spend the whole time talking in riddles and trying to convince herself that she is always right.

 

[Narkalui]

Yes, she is more than a little misguided.

 

[Judderman]

Jon is no more dead than the Hound. Perhaps Jon even now has as many scars.

 

[Narkalui]

The wound smoked*. I can't wait to find out what this means!



*The easiest way to quit is to never start. Couldn't resist.