So what's the latest crackpot theory?

[svalbard]

I read an interesting theory today and if it is not true then it should be. The Stark motto of 'Winter is Coming' refers to the an Ice Dragon called Winter and that Winterfell is named after said dragon.

 

[Judderman]

That is a very cheesy theory
Also if it was indeed a dragon's name then the name of Winterfell would likely imply that is where it was killed already.

 

[Narkalui]

I've got a new one, Brandon The Builder and the first of the Others, the Great Other, are one and the same.

I think he had heirs before the Children took him and made him into an Other and I think they sort of became his human lieutenants after he rebelled against the Others.

Also I think he can only make new Others from his own descendants, people with Stark blood. And I think that's what has happened to Benjen....

 

[Dan Jones]

Also if it was indeed a dragon's name then the name of Winterfell would likely imply that is where it was killed already.

Not necessarily. In northern England a "fell" is an archaic word for large hill, so it could be a reference to Winter's Hill, upon which the castle is built, which kind of makes sense.

But I admit it's rather fanciful at best!

 

[Boaz]

Memory Tale, I agree with your thoughts regarding a Varys & Middlefinger connection. That both are closest Targ (mayhaps Blackfyre) supporters, I don't doubt. Both are the two biggest finders and hoarders and users of information/misinformation. Their connection to the Targs, I guess, is in their names.

Varys is easily a nickname for Vaerys or Viserys (Visaerys).... showing his Valyrian ethnicity.

We use the nickname Littlefinger so often that we may not see the similarities in the name Baelish and the Targaryen naming conventions. Littlefinger's great grandfather was born in Braavos. Littlefinger's grandfather was the first Baelish to get land and title. This was probably much after Baelor I, but probably during the time of Prince Baelor (aka Breakspear), the most popular, noblest, most just and wise Targaryen prince in a while (mayhaps ever). He attracted quite a following before his untimely death. So how did the Baelishes get their land and title? Probably by royal decree. Did they take a new family name to signify their allegiance? Baelish = followers of Baelor, Baelor-like...

And how did Petyr Baelish, the puny son of the poorest lord in the Vale (if not the Realm), get fostered by the great Hoster Tully, Lord Paramount of the Trident? The ONLY explanation is royal favor.

We know that the Dornish, from their frequent marriages and royal title, have been loyal to the Targs. We know that both House Tyrell and House Tully were raised by Aegon I to their present status. The Tullys remained supportive until Rickard Stark and Jon Arryn brokered deals to bring about the Arryn-Baratheon-Stark-Tully alliance... from which point Hoster Tully was bound by blood to assist them in rebellion. House Tyrell remained loyal to the Targs. Mace Tyrell's surrender signified the wars' end... Dragonstone and Dorne could not carry on without Highgarden.

I also would like to agree regarding Bronn and Shae. Both were probably ex-birds. Bronn insinuated himself with Tyrion. And Bronn brought Shae to Tyrion... Tyrion actually asked Bronn something like, "From which knight did you take her? I'd rather not have that man riding at my side in the battle." I'll paraphrase Bronn's response, "I don't remember, some whiny coward. Don't worry, you'll have me by your side in the battle." Bronn never actually told Tyrion from whence she came.

The reason I cannot agree totally with Bronn and Shae being agents for Varys... is that there is a bit of calumny with Tywin. What if Bronn is not an agent of Varys, but is just opportunistic? Assuming Tywin will pay for services rendered, he protected Tyrion. When Tyrion and Bronn joined up with Tywin's army, it would have been easy for Tywin and/or Kevan to bring him on the payroll without Tyrion's knowledge. Tyrion had already told Bronn that he would doulbe anyone's offer, but Tyrion could not double Tywin's offer.

Then I can imagine Tywin/Kevan ordering Bronn to take Shae to Tyrion. Tywin was already considering Tyrion as Hand... and having Tyrion's two closest confidants as his own spies would help him know Tyrion's schemes. Tyrion was only with Tywin a week or so before Tywin sent him to KL... with the warning, "The next whore I find in your bed, I'll hang." Fast forward to Tyrion's trial... Bronn was AWOL (Tyrion thinks bought off by Cersei, but probably by Tywin... or both) and Shae showed up as a witness for the prosecution.

Now we know Tywin did not make idle threats or use words casually, like Theon, Viserys, Joffrey, et al. Tywin had months to hang Shae... why didn't he? Did he forget? No, in a cast of hundreds, he's one of the top five planners/thinkers/schemers. Was he suddenly overcome by her charms? I doubt it. Or did he already have a relationship with her before Tyrion's capture? Was she his agent from waaaay back? Much more likely.

But then again, if she was the best, and Varys sent her to Tyrion.... why not send her to Tywin? Mayhaps lightning could strike twice for Varys.

 

[Narkalui]

I think the problem with Bronn and Shae being former Little Birds is that all of the Little Birds have their tongues removed...

 

[Boaz]

What? Really? Is there proof of this?

Also, I urge caution when citing anything Varys or MIddlefinger says as fact. Eddard, on the other hand (pun intended, Ursa Major), had trouble concealing anything. When Catelyn asked him about Jon, he threatened her with the back of his hand...

You've heard the old joke,

"How can you tell when a lawyer/politician is lying?"

"His mouth is moving."

I do not yet know the trick of separating fact from fiction in either Varys' or Middlefinger's words.

GRRM has used his POV system to success. Eddard had to die because the truth would ultimately come out in his POV. The other characters who know the deep secrets are either dead (Jon Arryn, Rhaegar, Lyanna, Rickard, Aerys, Joanna, Arthur, Ashara), missing (Howland, Ashara), not yet given their own POVs (Middlefinger, Varys, Howland, Doran, Pycelle), or their POVs are very few (Connington, Melisandre, the new Three Eyed-Crow).

 

[Needle]

I think the problem with Bronn and Shae being former Little Birds is that all of the Little Birds have their tongues removed...

While I need a minute to think over Boaz's theory, I can be pretty sure the little birds have tongues, how else would a bunch of basically street urchins pass information? From what I understand very few of the poor can read and doubt these are the exception.

 

[Narkalui]

They are taught to read and write, then they read the letters they find, memorize them then write them out for Varys

 

[Koopa]

Man, when you stop and think about Varys is just as big a villain as petyr.

 

[Narkalui]

They all are in one way or another...

 

[Koopa]

I wouldn't call Jon or Eddard villains. Nor Samwell. Hot Pie is mostly just annoying. Tommen wasn't half bad. Too name a few

 

[Narkalui]

Yes I know, me too. But my point is, you know, various differing shades of grey...

 

[Koopa]

I'm sure it has been psoted on here as well, but i really like the theory that the ancient people living in Valyria experimented with wyverns and wyrms. The result and whatever blood magic they made use of resulted in the birth of dragons and their bond with them.µ

He asked Sam to read for him from a book by Septon Barth, whose writings had been burned during the reign of Baelor the Blessed

Methinks this is the book about dragons the septon wrote. and septon barth seemed to be a smart cookie. what else does sam know...

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

What? Really? Is there proof of this?

Also, I urge caution when citing anything Varys or MIddlefinger says as fact. Eddard, on the other hand (pun intended, Ursa Major), had trouble concealing anything. When Catelyn asked him about Jon, he threatened her with the back of his hand...

Don't know if this counts as proof but during the conversation that Arya overhears between Varys and Illyrio, Varys says he needs more little birds, and Illyrio complains that it is hard to find children that young who can read andwrite, then suggests that perhaps they would live longer if they didn't have their tongues removed.

that isn't to say that Varys doesn't also have spies that have tongues, but seems like his "little birds" don't have tongues and also don't live that long.

 

[Narkalui]

It's been a long time Old Friend

 

[Boaz]

There are many intriguing thoughts given in this thread. It seems a likely enough place for me to post my current thoughts. I do not want to go into a lot of detail, but I do want to give an overview of my theories.

As Brian commented, I think on page 3, that Bran has the ability to affect people over space and time, that this is the main story going forward. Brandon was the first character given a chapter. That immediately followed the prologue where the supernatural conflict was introduced. I think Bran is affecting ghost. I think he’s looking for ways to also influence, John, Sansa, and Arya through their dreams. And maybe Jaime as well.

There are other influences taking place through dreams. Jojen. Robert Aaron. Euron Greyjoy. Dany. Perhaps Eddard. I think Benjamin stark was influenced by dreams as well. These influences may be Bran traveling through time or maybe Brynden Rivers. I am not sold that Blood raven, is the three eyed Crow. I think it is more likely that Bran himself is the three eyed Crow.

I think Howland Reed had dreams as well. I do not think that Howland is a green seer as his son Jojen is. I think Howland Reed has skin changing abilities.

I think Howland Reed, after being saved by Lyanna, at Harrenhal, conspired with Lyanna to defeat three knights. I believe Lyanna used her horse riding ability, that her father indulged, to ride as the mystery knight and win. I think Howland Reed used his skin changing abilities to interfere with the mounts of the three knights, thus allowing Lyanna to easily unhorse them.

Rhaegar was trying to unseat his father. Oswll Whent, and Arthur Dayne were loyal to him. He then co-opted Gerold Hightower. But Rhaegar was unable to gain the loyalty of Tywin Lannister and his schemes faltered. I think his plan from childhood was to bring about the prince that was promised (TPTWP), the three heads of the dragon, and Azor Ahai reborn. He did not want to do this for the glory of his family, but for the express purpose in defeating the Others.

I believe Eddard Stark loved and married Ashara Dayne. I believe Jon Snow is their son. Eddard honored the men in his life by naming his sons after them. Robb was named for his best friend. Bran was named for his murdered brother.Rickon was named for his murdered father. Naming Jon, a *******, after his foster father does not make sense. Naming Jon, his first true, born son, by Ashara Dayne, to honor his foster father, makes a great deal of sense.

I believe the mad king raped Lyanna, and Aegon is the result. In fact, I think that Aerys II had seven children. In birth order, they are Rhaegar, Cersei (Caersei), Jaime (Jaeme), Tyrion (Taerion), Viserys, Aegon, and Daenerys. This changes Jaime’s kingslaying to kinslaying. This changes Tyrion’s patricide to murder.

I believe in order to secure their success, Jon Arryn and Eddard Stark caved in to the demands of Hoster Tully. And Jon was conceived before Robb. I think Jon was born somewhere between King’s Landing and the Tower of Joy. Maybe White Harbor. Maybe Griffin’s Roost. May be the Tower of Joy.

I believe in the fight at the tower, Hightower and Whent were slain along with five of Eddard’s companions. I believe that Howland used his skin changing ability, to affect a horse or two, to stop Arthur Dayne.

I think that Eddard, Ashara, Howland, and Arthur plotted to save Rhaegar’s son, and fulfill his plan to stop the others. And Eddard sent Jon to Winterfell. Ashara and Arthur took Aegon to Essos. And Eddard sent Jeor Mormont to the Wall for supporting the Targaryens. Benjen went to the wall either as punishment for keeping Leona‘s secret or in order to be part of Rhaegar’s plans.

I believe Oberyn went to Kings Landing to further Dorans plot to strip Tywin of everything, and then murder him. I think Littleinger and Olenna were going to murder Joffrey with the wine, but Oberyn beat them to it with the cream sauce on the pie. Joffrey was not Oberyn’s target, Tyrion was. I think Shae is Sarella Sand, Oberyn‘s daughter. I think she gave Tywin the Tears of Lys on Oberyn’s orders. I think she was also going to poison Cersei, Jaime, and Tommen in accordance with Oberyn’s wishes.

 

[MemoryTale]

This isn't my theory, but I enjoyed it, so I'm posting it up here:

The missing Sand Snake, Saralla, is in Oldtown working on a Maester's chain, and is in fact The Sphinx. There was a lot of talk in this theory about how all the Sand Snakes are proficient with weapons, and Martin describes "him" as being a very pretty boy, but my favourite part was that Alleras is Sarella backwards.

 

[Boaz]

@MemoryTale It absolutely makes sense. But my problem with this theory is that it is everyone’s first conclusion. Just as Tyrion and Littlefinger can depend upon Cersei’s first conclusion to be wrong, Martin does the same to us… it’s so obvious that it can’t be true.

Does Alleras live in a dormitory? Does he never get dirty during his studies and need to change clothing? And even though he is very good looking, and the young men all hang out at a brothel, are we expected to believe that none of the girls have succeeded in taking him to the back room? We know that Alleras is half summer islander. The summer islanders are renowned for their promiscuity as part of their religion.

 

[MemoryTale]

@MemoryTale It absolutely makes sense. But my problem with this theory is that it is everyone’s first conclusion. Just as Tyrion and Littlefinger can depend upon Cersei’s first conclusion to be wrong, Martin does the same to us… it’s so obvious that it can’t be true.

Does Alleras live in a dormitory? Does he never get dirty during his studies and need to change clothing? And even though he is very good looking, and the young men all hang out at a brothel, are we expected to believe that none of the girls have succeeded in taking him to the back room? We know that Alleras is half summer islander. The summer islanders are renowned for their promiscuity as part of their religion.

As I said it's not my theory, but I'll answer a couple of points:

We know that Alleras is half Summer Islander, but not what the other half is. Oberyn travelled the world in his youth, and even rode with a few sellsword companies, and I think we can take it for a fact that he would have taken a Summer Islander to bed if he had the opportunity. We also know that Oberyn took all the Sand Snakes back to Dorne with him, so if he took SarellAlleras at a young age, she may not have embraced the Summer religion.

I'm not sure if the sleeping and bathing arrangements for the students has ever been explored. I don't recall Pate's prologue mentioning it, so it's possible we'd need more Sam chapters when/if TWOW ever comes out to answer that one, but Arya did travel with a bunch of Night's Watch recruits with only one of them cottoning on that she was a girl, and there were less options for privacy.

All we really know about Sarella is that she is somewhere away from Dorne, playing a "game" of some description. If said "game" is "Let's see if a woman can forge a Maester's chain", then maybe Sarella sees that as being more important than letting girls take her to the back. I appreciate a SoIaF character actually keeping it in their pants is the craziest notion in this entire thread, but it could happen.