The Winds of Winter publishing date guesses?

HareBrain said:
That's at least possible -- I think/hope he must have planned the last book very tightly in the writing of WoW, because he can't afford any margin for error with so little wiggle-room left. The optimistic part of me wants to believe this is why WoW has taken so long, and therefore the last book should be quick to write. But the downside of planning a book to the nth degree can be that the writing becomes joyless, and motivation is lost.
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I doubt it. It is rather inconsistent with his self-professed style and his behaviour tbf.
 
I reckon hes tied down that he cant release any more books until the shows done. Id have to imagine the books are done and we will hear more this summer when the shows done.
 
biodroid said:
Or he will let the show finish it for him instead.
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Ah I doubt that.. He must have an ending. It's crazy like for my own story, the ending is surely the climax and what your building towards. To have invested that amount of time and people thinking he would never finish it is crazy.
 
the show writers thought grmm would have released at least 1 book if not both of the 2 remaining ones before the season reached it's end of tv. so i doubt he's tied down, aside from lack of motivation. He simply lost interest imo.
 
Koopa said:
the show writers thought grmm would have released at least 1 book if not both of the 2 remaining ones before the season reached it's end of tv. so i doubt he's tied down, aside from lack of motivation. He simply lost interest imo.
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Such a time to lose motivation when his book is more popular than ever tho I suppose the money he got and is getting killed his progression.
 
HareBrain said:
...and motivation is lost.
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It's a pretty highly unusual situation. How a writer reacts to the TV series of his books overtaking his books is difficult to judge, given that I can't think of another example of this!

I wonder if, assuming the main 'beats' of the TV series are more or less how what his books will contain, that there is indeed a degree of motivational drop. Instead of working on WoW and revealing to an eager world the parentage of Jon Snow, Daenerys' return to Westeros, etc. which I think would give a writer energy, he might feel he's just now 'padding out' an adaption of the show?

Or perhaps he's purposefully decided to diverge the book story from the show universe and that's been the cause of the delay as he's changed loads of things?
 
Koopa said:
He simply lost interest imo.
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I've thought this for years. I think he lost interest in finishing the books because he'd accomplished his goal by the time HBO picked up the series. He had created an entire world that would live on after he was gone. That's his legacy. Once he hit that critical mass, he lost interest in completing the story. I also think that's why he intends for his papers and notes to be destroyed if he dies before the books are finished. At first I thought that decision was horrible, then I decided he intended to give the following writer a free hand. But now I realize it's not really his specific plots that matter to Martin so much as the existence of the world itself. Other writers will inevitably carry on, but for him, it's all about the world building. That's why he's writing the prequel (plus he's getting paid a large sum by HBO to do it). This way, he gets to build out the world some more without cluttering the original story with more characters - a real problem that began with the fourth book.

Meanwhile, Martin says life is too short to spend so much time sitting and writing, and Gaiman says George is not our bitch, etc. Okay, fine. But the fact is, Martin's butt is happily in the chair with hands on keyboard quite a lot, just like when he edits all those Wild Cards books. Clearly, he works on what he's interested in. That's my theory anway.

So here we are. Martin gave HBO the big ending when it was apparent they were pulling ahead with the understanding that they would get there with their own plotting. Now he's complaing about some of HBO's character decisions and thinking out loud that he kinda probably maybe should've finished the books first. Seriously, I feel like he screwed over the original readers. I would rather finish the series before watching the show, but the ending will be spoiled by a public who won't shut up about this pop culture event. So, I have zero sympathy for Martin and his career choices.

But he is a good writer, and I'm looking forward to reading Fever Dream.
 
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Nozzle Velocity said:
I've thought this for years. I think he lost interest in finishing the books because he'd accomplished his goal by the time HBO picked up the series. He had created an entire world that would live on after he was gone. That's his legacy. Once he hit that critical mass, he lost interest in completing the story. I also think that's why he intends for his papers and notes to be destroyed if he dies before the books are finished. At first I thought that decision was horrible, then I decided he intended to give the following writer a free hand. But now I realize it's not really his specific plots that matter to Martin so much as the existence of the world itself. Other writers will inevitably carry on, but for him, it's all about the world building. That's why he's writing the prequel (plus he's getting paid a large sum by HBO to do it). This way, he gets to build out the world some more without cluttering the original story with more characters - a real problem that began with the fourth book.

Meanwhile, Martin says life is too short to spend so much time sitting and writing, and Gaiman says George is not our bitch, etc. Okay, fine. But the fact is, Martin's butt is happily in the chair with hands on keyboard quite a lot, just like when he edits all those Wild Cards books. Clearly, he works on what he's interested in. That's my theory anway.

So here we are. Martin gave HBO the big ending when it was apparent they were pulling ahead with the understanding that they would get there with their own plotting. Now he's complaing about some of HBO's character decisions and thinking out loud that he kinda probably maybe should've finished the books first. Seriously, I feel like he screwed over the original readers. I would rather finish the series before watching the show, but the ending will be spoiled by a public who won't shut up about this pop culture event. So, I have zero sympathy for Martin and his career choices.

But he is a good writer, and I'm looking forward to reading Fever Dream.
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I’ve wondered for a while if the burning motivation to tell his story has died out in GRRM, due to the story already being told by others at this point. Even if there are some differences in plot and characters. I suspect most artists are motivated by far more than large sums of money (otherwise they would pursue careers with more financial guarantees), and the need to create something unique is a powerful driving force. Making a living is a priority, yes, but if the imperative to get the story told is no longer there, and if his other motivation is now to go from being stinking rich to stinking richer, I don’t think that’s quite enough to get him through the enormity of a task like finishing an epic fantasy series (which Robert Jordan couldn’t manage in one lifetime).

Not that I’m saying he’s given up, I’m sure he still desperately wants to finish it, but putting myself in his shoes it’s understandable if giving up the reins has diverted Martin towards telling stories only he can tell - unlike Ice and Fire, which will conclude with or without him.
 
Simbelmynë said:
I’ve wondered for a while if the burning motivation to tell his story has died out in GRRM, due to the story already being told by others at this point.
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I've wondered about this also. But the struggles and delays seemed to start pre-HBO with the fourth book when he talked about what a pain it was to write. I think that's when his world-building talents started to overpower his plotting skills. And remember, world-building was the impetus for the series when he was escaping the confines of Hollywood. He's been very open about this, and it's why he was inspired by Tad Williams' work.

I agree that he'll finish the series, but I don't agree that he desperately wants to. I think he'd love to drop Ice and Fire altogether if he could do it without being publicly excoriated. I'm sure he doesn't want to be in Harlan Ellison's shoes, eternally promising Dangerous Visions 3. Until yesterday, I've never posted anything, anywhere, about GRRM that I can remember. I just wanted to get this off my chest after he has the gall to criticize the writers for HBO at this point when he has no one to blame but himself.
 
@Judderman Thanks for the link. His last two lines are...

"I have said it before: don’t believe everything you read on the internet.

Except here, of course."

A pessimist might think that sounds a lot like Middlefinger telling Eddard, "I did warn you not to trust me."

@Nozzle Velocity I highly recommend Fevre Dream. I did not identify with either the main nor the secondary protagonists.... and yet Martin's style in telling the story is wonderful. I really felt like I could see, smell, and hear the pre-war Mississippi River culture.
 
You don't think he is even going to finish WoW? That would be very sad.
 
TWOW might see the light of day, but I still believe that it will take eight books (or more) at least to untangle the mess he's created, and he does have the extra book title floating out there, A Time For Wolves anyone?

But a Dream of Spring, nah. He's 70 years old, overweight and we are now looking at the longest gap between books of nearly eight years at this point. I don't see how he's fixed the Meereenese knot as he put it, and in addition I believe he has created a Winterfell knot for himself as well.

The HBO series literally had to just chop that sh*t in half with a mighty, "f*ck It", to get the plot moving again.

We know how it ends now, and we know the three WTF moments GRRM told D&D. I'll be impressed if he finishes Fire & Blood, a lot of which had already been published previously.
 
That is utimately the thing though. I'm not sure if it really ends like that. I think the greater plot points remain the same right up until season 7. But i have a hard time getting my mind around this being the ending grrm truly had in mind. Then again he did tell the show writers how he sees the end. so maybe i'm wrong.
 
Just because he told the writers how it ends doesn't mean they did it his way. They are their own people with their own ideas.

But yeah, I don't see GRRM finishing the story either. TWoW will be released, but I think the final book/s will go the way of Robert Jordan and finished by another writer. After all, GRRM doesn't have all day every day to work on his books; even though GoT on HBO is finished, he is still directly involved in the prequels. The shows take up a lot of his time, along with editing and publishing his other stuff, like Wildcards, etc.
 
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