A place for horse related questions

[Toby Frost]

A quick question. I have two characters looking to buy something to travel on. One is a man of fifty or so, in good shape. The other is a woman of about 25. Both are practical people and, while they both know how to fight, neither is planning to do so from horseback. They have come into some money but don't have luxurious tastes. The setting, incidentally, is Southern Europe in about 1550.

I remember J R Hale saying that small horses or ponies would have been used for similar purposes in War and Society in Renaissance Europe. Is this right?

 

[Kylara]

Native breeds are really amazing for travelling on as they are hardy and courageous. Travelling horses are not really a particular breed, you want something of a decent size and it needs to be sturdy. You don't want anything huge, you want something probably between 13 (12hh if you are small) -15hh with stamina, courage and brains. So yes, small horses or native breed ponies (take a look at mongol and icelandic ponies for how amazing native breeds are). That size is easiest to hop on and off of Hope that helps

 

[Toby Frost]

That helps a lot. Thanks!

 

[Brian G Turner]

Toby, it sounds like you'll be looking for an ambling mule or a palfrey, which also ambles.

Ambling is a pace that requires little effort for horse and rider, and can be kept up for long periods without tiring.

 

[Montero]

And other things I am vaguely aware of

1. Horses for travelling ideally have a smooth gait -ones that are fancy looking, lifting their feet up high, showy trotting horses are probably not that comfortable.

2. Reasonably placid and doesn't have any nasty tricks like trying to rub you off on a tree.

3. Ideally well behaved in stables - doesn't bite and kick you or its stablemates or try and squelch you into the side of the stall.

4. I've heard thickness of leg bones not height of horse is the best decider for how much weight a horse can carry - native breeds tend to be broad and stocky.

 

[Boneman]

So, after a river crossing, does a horse shake itself, the way dogs do? Would it do it with a passenger aboard? How quickly should one stop to rub down or dry the horse, or can you just rely on it drying with exercise?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Kissmequick]

Yeees -- not exactly like dogs (though this may depend on how hairy they are! Most will concentrate on the mane) And yes, a horse may well try it with you on board

As for rubbing down, this will depend

How highly bred is the horse?
Have they been clipped?
What's the weather like?

The more highly bred they are, and the colder it is, the quicker you want to get them dry (esp. if they've been clipped as most of their natural protection from the cold is gone). A shaggy pony will take better to turns of cold (or other natural phenomena) than a thoroughbred that's had its winter coat clipped back, or even if it hasn't been clipped -- a Dartmoor pony frex is built to withstand the weather. More finely bred horses are not, because they've been bred with other things in mind, so need more care

But all around? The quicker you rub 'em down, the better. Handfuls of straw or similar are best to get the worst of the water off. ETA: A hot mash to eat is good, if possible, too. Just like you, they like warm food to heat them up if cold! The way to check if a horse is too cold is to check the ears. If they are cold, rug them up/hot mash or whatever you can

 

[Kylara]

Not necessarily, but they sometimes do - it depends how wet they are - if it's just legs wet then probably no shaking. They will shake with riders on

If the river is really cold stop get off rub down immediately and don't do any work until the legs have warmed up otherwise you will have a broken horse that can't walk. If it is relatively shallow and not super cold then the air will dry it. The deeper the water and the colder the water the more likely it is you will have to rub them down. The water might dry with exercise but when you are finished for the day you will need to rub the horses down otherwise you might get sores around the tack.

So pretty much - cold - stop, rub down, don't go on til warm
warm - keep going unless really deep
hot day cool/warmish water - you'll be fine and the horse will probably thank you for it.

Whatever happens, you will need to rub down at the end of the ride. Hope that helps.

P.S. Horses tend to shake after exercise when they are all sweaty so that the itchy dust gets released and they are a little more comfy for them. Then they need hosing/sponging down and sweat scrapering (https://www.ipsadirect.ie/images/sweat scraper.jpg) you can also use your hand. Then when dry they need brushing.

 

[Boneman]

Brilliant, thanks KMQ and Kylara, just what I need. Never thought about hot food for cold horses... or using straw to rub down, always assumed every rider (in fantasy stories, anyway) carried a brush in their saddlebag.

 

[Kissmequick]

Oh you'd have a brush all right -- you need one unless you want your horse to have sores etc.

But if they are very wet, straw (or similar) will soak up/take away the excess water before you brush. Some horses really like it too -- like a massage.

 

[Mirannan]

Native breeds are really amazing for travelling on as they are hardy and courageous. Travelling horses are not really a particular breed, you want something of a decent size and it needs to be sturdy. You don't want anything huge, you want something probably between 13 (12hh if you are small) -15hh with stamina, courage and brains. So yes, small horses or native breed ponies (take a look at mongol and icelandic ponies for how amazing native breeds are). That size is easiest to hop on and off of Hope that helps

I'm no expert, but I imagine that the size of the intended rider might have something to do with the choice of horse. Someone particularly small might have issues with getting on a big horse, and someone particularly heavy might well be too much for a small horse or pony to manage. There is a reason why 9-13 year old children are usually given ponies rather than full-sized horses to ride, after all.

Regarding horses' eyesight, the "blind spot" directly in front is a natural consequence of the placement of their eyes - and this in turn is a consequence of the fact that horses in the wild are prey animals whose primary requirement is for sight angles as close to 360 degrees as possible. The same applies to other similar animals, such as antelopes.

Forward-facing eyes tend to be present in predators and also animals that need good forward vision to get around in trees, such as apes and monkeys.

 

[Kylara]

I'm no expert, but I imagine that the size of the intended rider might have something to do with the choice of horse. Someone particularly small might have issues with getting on a big horse, and someone particularly heavy might well be too much for a small horse or pony to manage. There is a reason why 9-13 year old children are usually given ponies rather than full-sized horses to ride, after all.

Not really. the reason children are given ponies is so that they can do everything more easily. A native breed pony can be ridden by an adult - a small ish adult sure, but that is mainly because your legs get in the way otherwise. They are designed for weight bearing - that's why you see a lot of ponies pulling carriages and they were great pit ponies. You can put small people on big horses and they can ride them fine (I'm 5 foot 1 - 2 and I regularly get chucked on 11hh and then 17hh horses and I can deal with both). The difficulty with large horses is that you have a lot of horse to hold together and children don't often have the skill for that when they are children. It's more a skill thing than a height thing. Pretty much anyone could ride a 13hh pony without difficulty (unless overweight, but that is slightly different - if it is Cobby, then it would be fine compared to a slender Welshy) The getting on difficulty is easily surmounted - you either vault on (can be trickier on bigger horses), use a mounting block (set of steps), get a leg up, mount up yourself (foot in stirrup and then bounce up or you climb a fence, gate, stones, higher bit of ground and mount up...

 

[Boneman]

So, it's life and death, and save the world, but the hero has got to ride 30 miles to do it. Grass roads, rested horse, no major hills how long would it take? This really is desperation and he would ride the horse into the ground if he had to. (sorry, it is fantasy, after all...)


Many thanks

 

[Kylara]

Ummm, probably take you 3 to 6 hours, depending on horse type, weather etc. Possibly less if you have an endurance horse. People can do 100 miles in about 16 hours in long distance competitions...average pleasure riding horse should be able to do up to 50 miles a day (not super speedy charging around though) so if your horse tends to endurance build and you are really pushing I'd say probably closer to the 3 in the about 3 to 6 hours. Hah, is hard to guess at speed as most people don't go at speed (constantly, enough to founder your horse), but it would definitely be less than a day, even if you go chilled and rest appropriately.

 

[Boneman]

Ummm, probably take you 3 to 6 hours, depending on horse type, weather etc. Possibly less if you have an endurance horse. People can do 100 miles in about 16 hours in long distance competitions...average pleasure riding horse should be able to do up to 50 miles a day (not super speedy charging around though) so if your horse tends to endurance build and you are really pushing I'd say probably closer to the 3 in the about 3 to 6 hours. Hah, is hard to guess at speed as most people don't go at speed (constantly, enough to founder your horse), but it would definitely be less than a day, even if you go chilled and rest appropriately.

Excellent, well within my time-frame, so the world can be saved, thanks Kylara!!

 

[Kylara]

Thought I'd stick it here as I read in a book yesterday that someone "hitched" two horses to a carriage. This is wrong Horses are "put to" the carriage, not "hitched".
Also some carriage terminology:
two horses are called a "pair" (one next to another), one horse is a "single", two horses one in front of the other is a "tandem", a pair with a single horse in front is called a "unicorn", four or more horses are a "team". Anyone sitting on a horse in harness and connected to the carriage is riding "pillion" (you really only see that on fancy teams of 6 or state vehicles really). The driver is the "whip", there are "grooms" and "backsteps" and on a small carriage the backstep is the groom . Anyways, just thought I would get all that off my chest in the hope that it helps someone!

 

[sknox]

@Kylara: thanks for the terminology. I would guess those are 18th century or later?

@Kissmequick and Kylara: What are the implications of not rubbing down the horse? What I have in mind here is a cavalry crossing a cold river (one deep enough to require some swimming). Would they have to curtail the day's ride to tend to the horses? Would they be debilitated going into battle?

I'm thinking of Hannibal crossing the Rhone, for example. Or Frederick II's dash across the Lambro River in the dark of night. Or Hannibal across the Trebia River. Or Alexander at the Granicus. Or ... well, you get the idea.

 

[Hex]

So... I have a horse galloping across a relatively flat space, its rider determined to grab someone who is running away.

I would like a third person to be able to do something that distracts the ride and ends up laming the horse -- ideally she should be able to do this from a distance.

Any thoughts? Is this even appropriate for this thread?

 

[Kissmequick]

@Kissmequick and Kylara: What are the implications of not rubbing down the horse? What I have in mind here is a cavalry crossing a cold river (one deep enough to require some swimming). Would they have to curtail the day's ride to tend to the horses? Would they be debilitated going into battle?

The implications would be much the same for the riders -- you'd risk them going into battle cold/wet/possibly ill. It's not ideal, but you could do it especially if you aren't too bothered about losing a few horses/men. If these are horses bred for this, they'd be hardier than say a thoroughbred, not so shaggy as a pony I should think so they'd stand some rough conditions. But horses can be surprisingly delicate.

So... I have a horse galloping across a relatively flat space, its rider determined to grab someone who is running away.

I would like a third person to be able to do something that distracts the ride and ends up laming the horse -- ideally she should be able to do this from a distance.

Any thoughts? Is this even appropriate for this thread?

Bolas

 

[Hex]

Bolas

Thanks

Assuming the absence of bolas (although maybe I'll have a think about what else might be used in the same way...). If a horse suddenly got a big rock in its foot/ shoe/ whatever the term is while it was galloping, would it stop?