Boaz
Happy Easter!
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2005
- Messages
- 6,589
I've not seen the Theon sample chapter, but I just read Arianne's. Sry, Kiwi, and Big Bear all had good observations. But I don't think that any of you really got yourselves into the proper mindset to read ASOIAF. You're doing normal reading... and that does not quite cut it with this epic.
My apologies for the chastising you, but let me share a few observations. I believe that this chapter gives us many little juicy morsels of information. Not all of them are as juicy as the last one. When I'm finished, then you can call me arrogant, self-righteous, and long winded. If you already know that I tend to be pedantic and verbose and you don't want to completely waste your time, then skip down to the paragraph beginning with the word "Finally."
First, just as Sry stated, Doran is fully committed to a Targaryen return and a Lannister downfall. He's sent his eldest son and now his eldest child, at times both were considered his heirs, off on dangerous and deadly missions. If they are discovered, Doran will be convicted of treason. If they fail, he loses a child and heir. If they succeed, then he's fully committed to treason. For a patient schemer, he's finally gone all in. His only way out is if his children fail and are killed... then he has deniability and time to plan for his last child, Tristayne, to overcome the Lannisters.
In addition, Doran has surrounded Arianne with Oberyn's own squire and daughter. This shows his willingness to commit to action.
Second, Doran personally shut down Damon Sand's romance with Arianne... and now Doran personally appointed him as Arianne's bodyguard. Arianne is a fool to think this is coincidental or that Damon is doing this for vengeance. Damon is getting paid handsomely by Doran. And don't think for an instant that if Doran told Damon about Quentyn's mission that he did not inform Damon of Arianne's treason and her seduction of Arys. Damon will not fall for Arianne. In fact, his presence may be to make sure that Arianne does not commit further treason... Damon may be her executioner as much as her bodyguard.
The third bit of information is that Areo Hotah is off with Obara chasing Darkstar. This means that unless we get a totally new POV in Dorne, then no more info on Doran is coming to us. Arianne and Areo were access to Doran like Davos and Jon are access to Stannis. We'll probably be in the dark regarding Dorne's movements until they miraculously appear on the battlefield. But the converse is also true, Areo is off chasing a Dayne. I don't know if he's going to the Dayne ancestral home, Starfall. But we'll probably get some information on House Dayne from Areo... i.e. What in the world happened to Ashara Dayne, Eddard's first love? Did she really commit suicide? Is she really Jon's mother?
Fourth, there is some information regarding Arianne's traitorous friend... Andrey Dalt, Garin, or Sylva Santagar. Drey and Garin were both exiled. Sylva was wedded to old man Estermont. Remember that Arianne is her father's heir because the laws of succession in Dorne allow for the eldest child to inherit regardless of sex. Soooo, Sylva is supposedly being punished by marrying an old, old man. When he dies childless, who will inherit? Sylva. Oh, did I mention that she's an only child so that she'll inherit her family's lands and titles as well? It seems to me that she now stands to inherit both Spottswood and Greenstone. Two were exiled and one was gifted with lands and title... do we still wonder who the traitor was?
The fifth thing that struck me was this chapter sets up Sansa. The comparisons to Sansa seem obvious to me. Both are well bred princesses who thought they'd never be included in the game. Both love their little fantasies of love. Even though younger, Sansa has had her blinders ripped off... and she now wants to learn to patiently play the game without fantasies. Arianne, on the other hand, is still rushing into the game and indulging in her romantic illusions. The memories of sex, the desire for sex, and the failed seduction are not for titillation... they are for character revelation.
Next we find out that Greenstone has been captured by Connington's men. Earlier I mentioned that Sylva was now Lady Greenstone. Hmmmmm. Sylva and her aged husband may be the way that Arianne confirms Connington. Then again, Sylva may end up spying on Arianne again.
Finally, the thing that most caught my attention was that Aurane Waters did not sail to Stannis (whom he supported when Stannis besieged KL) and Arianne is about to embark upon a romance with the ******* of Driftmark. Do you remember Aurane? He's a House Velaryon *******. The Velaryons are a Valyrian family like the Daynes and Targaryens. Cersei made him Master of Ships in AFFC. She thought he looked like Rhaegar. Soon after Aurane absconded with ALL of Cersei's new warships.
The following quote is from the Arianne TWOW sample. Valena Toland is giving Arianne the news...
This Lord of the Waters has real triple decked warships? Where in the world did he get them?
So there is a pirate king between Arianne and Connington.
Do you remember Arianne's first POV in AFFC? She had a memory of a desert oasis...
Sooooo.... that's what I got out of the sample. Call me crazy. Kiss me. Just don't ignore me.
Edit: I forgot to mention that this sample says nothing regarding Ser Balon Swann. I believe, in ADWD, that he is challenged by Doran to hunt down Gerold Dayne, aka Darkstar. If so, then he's with Areo and Obara and presumably the Lannisters still do not know anything regarding Myrcella's maiming. Doran is still supressing all signs of treason...
My apologies for the chastising you, but let me share a few observations. I believe that this chapter gives us many little juicy morsels of information. Not all of them are as juicy as the last one. When I'm finished, then you can call me arrogant, self-righteous, and long winded. If you already know that I tend to be pedantic and verbose and you don't want to completely waste your time, then skip down to the paragraph beginning with the word "Finally."
First, just as Sry stated, Doran is fully committed to a Targaryen return and a Lannister downfall. He's sent his eldest son and now his eldest child, at times both were considered his heirs, off on dangerous and deadly missions. If they are discovered, Doran will be convicted of treason. If they fail, he loses a child and heir. If they succeed, then he's fully committed to treason. For a patient schemer, he's finally gone all in. His only way out is if his children fail and are killed... then he has deniability and time to plan for his last child, Tristayne, to overcome the Lannisters.
In addition, Doran has surrounded Arianne with Oberyn's own squire and daughter. This shows his willingness to commit to action.
Second, Doran personally shut down Damon Sand's romance with Arianne... and now Doran personally appointed him as Arianne's bodyguard. Arianne is a fool to think this is coincidental or that Damon is doing this for vengeance. Damon is getting paid handsomely by Doran. And don't think for an instant that if Doran told Damon about Quentyn's mission that he did not inform Damon of Arianne's treason and her seduction of Arys. Damon will not fall for Arianne. In fact, his presence may be to make sure that Arianne does not commit further treason... Damon may be her executioner as much as her bodyguard.
The third bit of information is that Areo Hotah is off with Obara chasing Darkstar. This means that unless we get a totally new POV in Dorne, then no more info on Doran is coming to us. Arianne and Areo were access to Doran like Davos and Jon are access to Stannis. We'll probably be in the dark regarding Dorne's movements until they miraculously appear on the battlefield. But the converse is also true, Areo is off chasing a Dayne. I don't know if he's going to the Dayne ancestral home, Starfall. But we'll probably get some information on House Dayne from Areo... i.e. What in the world happened to Ashara Dayne, Eddard's first love? Did she really commit suicide? Is she really Jon's mother?
Fourth, there is some information regarding Arianne's traitorous friend... Andrey Dalt, Garin, or Sylva Santagar. Drey and Garin were both exiled. Sylva was wedded to old man Estermont. Remember that Arianne is her father's heir because the laws of succession in Dorne allow for the eldest child to inherit regardless of sex. Soooo, Sylva is supposedly being punished by marrying an old, old man. When he dies childless, who will inherit? Sylva. Oh, did I mention that she's an only child so that she'll inherit her family's lands and titles as well? It seems to me that she now stands to inherit both Spottswood and Greenstone. Two were exiled and one was gifted with lands and title... do we still wonder who the traitor was?
The fifth thing that struck me was this chapter sets up Sansa. The comparisons to Sansa seem obvious to me. Both are well bred princesses who thought they'd never be included in the game. Both love their little fantasies of love. Even though younger, Sansa has had her blinders ripped off... and she now wants to learn to patiently play the game without fantasies. Arianne, on the other hand, is still rushing into the game and indulging in her romantic illusions. The memories of sex, the desire for sex, and the failed seduction are not for titillation... they are for character revelation.
She's in for trouble... she's a shorter, less ruthless Cersei. We know how Cersei would conduct diplomacy with Jon Connington... wine and sex and promises and sex. Arianne makes Sansa seem wise.
Next we find out that Greenstone has been captured by Connington's men. Earlier I mentioned that Sylva was now Lady Greenstone. Hmmmmm. Sylva and her aged husband may be the way that Arianne confirms Connington. Then again, Sylva may end up spying on Arianne again.
Finally, the thing that most caught my attention was that Aurane Waters did not sail to Stannis (whom he supported when Stannis besieged KL) and Arianne is about to embark upon a romance with the ******* of Driftmark. Do you remember Aurane? He's a House Velaryon *******. The Velaryons are a Valyrian family like the Daynes and Targaryens. Cersei made him Master of Ships in AFFC. She thought he looked like Rhaegar. Soon after Aurane absconded with ALL of Cersei's new warships.
The following quote is from the Arianne TWOW sample. Valena Toland is giving Arianne the news...
This Lord of the Waters has real triple decked warships? Where in the world did he get them?
So there is a pirate king between Arianne and Connington.
Do you remember Arianne's first POV in AFFC? She had a memory of a desert oasis...
Arianne also asked Damon if Viserys was handsome. Everyone knows that Rhaegar was gorgeous, ergo Viserys, her poor, murdered, denied love, must have been handsome too. Silver hair. Purple eyes. Rhaegar. Viserys. Darkstar. Aurane Waters.
Sooooo.... that's what I got out of the sample. Call me crazy. Kiss me. Just don't ignore me.
Edit: I forgot to mention that this sample says nothing regarding Ser Balon Swann. I believe, in ADWD, that he is challenged by Doran to hunt down Gerold Dayne, aka Darkstar. If so, then he's with Areo and Obara and presumably the Lannisters still do not know anything regarding Myrcella's maiming. Doran is still supressing all signs of treason...
Last edited:
And to think that I've missed so much here on forum since I've been gone.
